The Idea of Perfection

by Cold Creek Swimmer 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • Cold Creek Swimmer
    Cold Creek Swimmer

    As I was growing up, I was raised to believe in the story of Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden. This, I am sure, is what the majority of us were taught as children. Along with this teaching is the idea that perfection was lost when Adam and Eve sinned. At that point, it then became a quest to get an individual back to earth who was perfect and could then be sacrificed to make up for the earlier lost perfection.

    This is where JW's move to a different realm of belief. Most Christian religions agree with the above paragraph. For dubs, it then becomes the idea that only by living through the Great Tribulation and Thousand Year Reign of Christ will we then be able to have PERFECTION. Are we all on the same page? Good, because I have never been able to figure out how perfection could have been lost in the 1st place.

    Really, how could this happen? God made perfect spirit creatures. He then made perfect humans, right? At what point did he create the idea of sin? It seems to me, that for Satan to have been able to sin, he would have had to know what sin was and what the difference between right and wrong was. Why would a perfect individual, without any prior knowledge of sin, commit sin? Who was he going to blame his sin on? He was Satan already, no way he could blame someone else.

    I guess my thought is that there really is no way to justify the idea that a perfect spirit creature would or could introduce something that did not already exist. If we go with the idea that Satan is the originator of sin, as mentioned in the bible, then obviously that puts him on an equal ground with God. He was able to think of something that God did not. Before you blow a gasket, remember that the bible, God's inspired word, calls Satan the originator of sin.

    This brings me to the next point that I was headed for when speaking of the Great Tribulation. When an individual finally gets to the other side of Armageddon and gains perfection, why wouldn't he then at some point decide to sin? I mean really, is it any different than what Satan is supposed to have done? If God, the great prophesier, couldn't have predicted that there would be "SIN", then where is the guarantee that these perfect people won't sin? The whole idea is preposterous.

    Don't give me all the rhetoric about how God gave us free will and that's why Satan did what he did and all that nonsense. Let's just tell it like it really is: People are going to do what they are going to do regardless of what society says is wrong. Each society has it's own belief system and standards of conduct that may or may not conflict with the values of another society. Yes, there are certain things that are accepted as wrong across all cultures, but even these ideals are up for debate as to the seriousness of the crime in each culture.

    I would also like not to hear anything about how the reason god tolerates all the bad in the world is because he is trying to prove to the angels that man cannot rule himself successfully. Are you serious? It is quite obvious to me that man is incapable of doing anything that is not motivated by money when it comes to world politics. There will always be wars and conflicts and pain and suffering and bad things happening, because there will always be humans. Any real god worth his salt would not allow these atrocities to continue. Any real god would not ask his son to die because he was unable to create something that did not think for itself. It's a bit like giving a lawnmower to an Eskimo without any directions, and then being upset when they use it to make whale meat into sausage. "I've created these humans and given them a perfect garden. They just can't eat from that tree. Why? Because I said so."

    This is quite a long post just to get to the idea that perfection is a relative term that is unobtainable for any creature, including God. When there are rules, there will be sins. We are told that "God made man in his image". If God were perfect, we would not sin. Why? Because we would not be able to commit an "idea"(pick a sin) that is contrary to a principle that is based upon a made-up set of ideals created by an entity who demands perfection from people programmed to sin. To not sin, is to not be human. The 2 are synonymous and have never been anything but.

    CCS

  • changeling
    changeling

    As I am not perfect I did not read your entire post. But I do have ideas about perfection

    I think the concept of perfection is crippling and demoralizing. It cannot be attained.

    So when we strive for it or demand it of others we set everyone up for failure.

    changeling (of the not so perfect but happy class)

  • outnfree
    outnfree

    How about the idea that there is no such thing as SIN or falling short, that we are all creator-gods ourselves, and, yes, that we created good AND evil because how could one appreciate good if there were no evil with which to compare it?

    out

  • Terry
    Terry

    Perfection is not a condition. Not really. Perfection is the result of applying a standard and finding nothing amiss in terms of what the standard demands.

    A fork is perfect for skewering peas. A spoon is not.

    A spoon is perfect for eating soup. A fork is not.

    Perfect is as perfect does.

    I notice that a lot of people detach their conceptual labels from the actual referents and ostensibly defining instances. This won't do!

    Instances exist (or not) and not concepts.

  • PrimateDave
    PrimateDave

    Good points. The longer I am away from the brainwashing program, the more ridiculous the whole sin/redemption/perfection scenario appears to me.

    Dave

  • ex-nj-jw
    ex-nj-jw

    Great post - I feel the same way. If this "GOD" is the know all, be all, see all perfect GOD, why couldn't he just make sure things went right in the first place. If he/she/it knows how something is gonna turn out, change it before it happens! How many times is he/she/it gonna wipe out everything and start over, GEEZE!

    nj

  • Cold Creek Swimmer
  • Cold Creek Swimmer
    Cold Creek Swimmer

    Terry,

    Are your saying, in plain-speak, that perfection is obtainable when applied to inanimate objects, but not when applied as a concept? If so, I heartily agree. For how can anyone ever attain perfection in a world with so many different ideas of right and wrong? There is no universal standard of "correctness" that all sociecties agree upon.

    CCS

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    I think the story of the garden of Eden is a feeble atempt to try to explain the unknown.

    Sin, particularlyl sexual cravings is a way for the fat clergy class to keep the ignorant in bondage forking over their 10%. Or their energy and dedication.

  • erandir
    erandir

    My wife is my idea of perfection.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit