"Reform Movement" Disproves Core Doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses

by freeme 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • freeme
    freeme

    Hello!

    Just found it in the News and wanna know watcha think about it. Its about the 1914 doctrine and why it is false using the bible alone.

    607 BCE vs. Jeremiah the Prophet

    According to Jeremiah 52:12-13, the Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem and the First Temple in the nineteenth year of his reign. Since Jehovah's Witnesses consider this year to be 607 BCE, this puts Nebuchadnezzar's first year as king at around 625 BCE.

    Now according to Jeremiah 25:11-12, the land of Judah was to serve the kings of Babylon for 70 years, and after the 70 years, the Neo-Babylonian Empire was to be made desolate. Witnesses and secular historians agree that this servitude ended when Persian king Cyrus the Great conquered the Neo-Babylonian Empire in 539 BCE and the Jews had returned to their homeland by 537 BCE, but they disagree as to when this servitude began. The position of the Bible and secular historians is that it started right before Nebuchadnezzar officially became king (Jeremiah 25:1-8; 27:1-7; Daniel 1:1-6; 2:1-13), yet the position of the Witnesses is that it started four years later. Surprisingly, even when the bible chronology of the Witnesses is used, a huge problem emerges.

    Counting from the fourth reigning year of Nebuchadnezzar (621/620 BCE according to the Witnesses) to 537 BCE is at least 83 years. This is well over the 70 years spoken by Jeremiah even if one decides to count instead to 539 BCE. However, when one uses the dates accepted by historians, counting from the first reigning year of Nebuchadnezzar (606/605 BCE) to 537 BCE gives the necessary 70 years.

    A counter-argument that Jehovah's Witnesses often use is that Jeremiah 25:11-12 means that the land of Judah would be desolate for 70 years and that the land was desolate when there were no inhabitants (Jeremiah 9:11). This supposedly occurred in 607 BCE. However, the problem with this counter-argument is that even after Jerusalem was destroyed, there were still people in Judah with a man named Gedaliah as their ruler (2 Kings 25:22; Jeremiah 39:10). These were not exiled until four years later (Jeremiah 52:30), which equals only 66 years of desolation instead of the 70 required.

    To counter this argument, some Witnesses will argue that the land of Judah was considered desolate when Jerusalem's Temple was destroyed and that this occurred in 607 BCE. Yet, under this line of reasoning, the land of Judah would continue to be desolate until the Temple was rebuilt, which both Witnesses and historians agree did not occur until 516 BCE. This creates a period of 91 years, well over the 70 years foretold by Jeremiah. Interestingly again, when one uses the date of 586 BCE to count to 516 BCE, the needed 70 years is obtained.

    Despite their counter-arguments, the bible chronology of Jehovah's Witnesses simply fails to add up. It is apparent that 607 BCE is 70 years before 537 BCE, but why do Witnesses insist that the destruction of Jerusalem took place in that year? And what does this have to do with 1914 and World War I.

    http://www.prweb.com/releases/2007/8/prweb546361.htm

    freeme

  • freeme
    freeme

    i dont get the point of the text. my problem is here:

    Witnesses and secular historians agree that this servitude ended when Persian king Cyrus the Great conquered the Neo-Babylonian Empire in 539 BCE and the Jews had returned to their homeland by 537 BCE, but they disagree as to when this servitude began. The position of the Bible and secular historians is that it started right before Nebuchadnezzar officially became king (Jeremiah 25:1-8; 27:1-7; Daniel 1:1-6; 2:1-13), yet the position of the Witnesses is that it started four years later.

    What?

    Where in these scriptures or at least in the literature does it say that the servitude began in nebus first years edit: before he became officially king? And what does that mean? Can someone point it out for me?

    I always thought the doctrine is 537 + 70 years = 607, when jerusalem was destroyed in the 19th year of nebus reign and the desolation began.

    thank you

    freeme

  • freeme
    freeme

    oh no! why another 2 day-no-reply-thread? :(

    it seems like wt bashing for fun is way more popular than actually discussing why we CAN bash them...

  • carla
    carla

    No, there are discussions on these types of topics. You forget this topic especially has been done and done and done. If you are looking to show the 1914 doctrine is false I would suggest 'Captives of a Concept (Anatomy of an Illusion)' by Don Cameron. He does an excellent job.

    Personally I have done the 1914 thing to death with my jw, it is so utterly assinine I just don't care anymore.

  • eclipse
    eclipse

    Freeme,

    I thought it was interesting.

    While there are other 1914 articles on here, they are usually so long winded that I never bother to read them.

    This one is concise and easy to understand, so thank you for sharing it!

  • MadTiger
    MadTiger

    Main points:

    Wrong. Know they are wrong. Got rid of people who wanted to tell the truth decades ago. Still clinging to lies.

    That's just for starters.

    Good post.

  • freeme
    freeme

    No, there are discussions on these types of topics. You forget this topic especially has been done and done and done. If you are looking to show the 1914 doctrine is false I would suggest 'Captives of a Concept (Anatomy of an Illusion)' by Don Cameron. He does an excellent job.

    Personally I have done the 1914 thing to death with my jw, it is so utterly assinine I just don't care anymore.

    yeah, of course its discussed over and over again. but i thought that one maybe a new one. i didnt understand it completely though. to be honest none of the 1914 is wrong threads i read were completely convincing to me. okay, the 1914 is true side from the wts is neither convincing to me. lol.

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    Well as said in the article none of the date manipulations of the JWs square up with the 70 years of captivity mentioned by Jeremiah. So their dates must be wrong somewhere.

    The whole world agrees to one date and the JWs stubbornly cling to another.

  • carla
    carla

    As a non/never been jw I found the entire 1914 concept difficult to grasp, you mean they believe what???!! you've got to be kidding right? Too bad my jw will not read any of the many, many books I have disproving everything about the wt!

    Don't worry about bringing up topics that have been done before, always good to have a refresher and see where the dubs are at 'today' with new light and all.

  • Arthur
    Arthur

    I would say that the most thorough and most comprehensive study of the whole 1914 doctrine is Carl Olof Jonson's The Gentile Times Reconsidered. Most Witnesses still have the misunderstanding that C.T. Russell and his Bible Students developed the chronology. Carl Olof Johnson disects the origins of this chronology as well as the several other pseudo-prophetic dates which were put forth.

    When discovering how this silly number-crunching was developed by the Second Adventists instead of the Watchtower Society, this can make a JW more willing to look into it a little deeper. This one fact alone is huge, because the Second Adventists were the geniuses who got into the Pyramidology hype; and all of their other dates and timetables have had to be thrown into the scrap heap.

    Second-Adventist chronology is not a very solid foundation to build a religious organization on; in my opinion.

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