A, why do JWs claim that Elijah didn't go to Heaven?.matter in fact, why do most say he was sat down in another part of the world? B, could these be the 2 witnesses that the Bible talks about in Rev, that are shot dead for the entire would to see?
Enoch and Elijah: The 2 men that never died.
by A-Team 3 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Justahuman24
No, they're not. And they're not "shot dead". Elijah was beheaded, remember? And Jesus identified John the Baptist as "Elijah". Also, Elijah is said to have been transported some place else. In fact, he's spoken of as sending a letter to the king of Israel after his supposed being taken to heaven. AND Jesus said that no one before him had gone up to heaven.
Justahuman - but super nonetheless
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greendawn
The book of Revelation is symbolic and oriented around the Christian struggle against the forces of evil led by satan and culminates in the total triumph of the church over her enemies to the extend that all evil will be banished for ever and its memory obliterated. The two prophets most likely symbolise the saints and a phase of their struggle against the kingdom of satan.
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Leolaia
A-Team....Indeed, Enoch and Elijah were widely believed in Jewish tradition and in the early church to be the "two witnesses" who would come before the end of things, as these are the two men who never died. It is a notion that pre-dates Revelation and goes all the way back to the Animal Apocalypse of 1 Enoch (written in the early-to-middle second century BC), although even earlier sources like Malachi (written in the fourth century BC) and Sirach (written in the early second century BC) claim that Elijah would return (Malachi 3:24, Sirach 48:10). According to the Animal Apocalypse, Enoch relates a dream vision of the future which described his ascent to heaven before the Flood (1 Enoch 87:3-4), Elijah's ascension to heaven centuries later (89:52, "The Lord of the Sheep ... caused him to ascend to me and settle down"), and then the return of Elijah and himself before Judgment Day: "Thereafter those three who were clothed in white and who had previously brought me up [to heaven] grabbed me by the hand and also the hand of that ram holding me [i.e. Elijah, cf. 89:52] and they set me down among those sheep before the judgment took place" (90:31).
Enoch's ascension is otherwise mentioned in 1 Enoch 70:1-4, 2 Enoch 36:1-2, 3 Enoch 6:1, Sirach 44:16, 49:14, Wisdom 4:10-11, Jubilees 4:23, 1 Clement 9:4, Epiphanius, Panarion 1.5, 26.13.4, Leviticus Rabbah 32:4, etc. Other traditions about the ascension of Elijah can be found in Sirach 48:9-12, 1 Maccabees 2:58, Vita Prophetarum 21:15, Josephus, Antiquities 9.28, Apocalypse of Ezra 7:6, Kerygmata Petrou 2.17.1, Acts of Pilate 15:1, etc. Sources that together mention Enoch and Elijah include Josephus, Antiquities 9.28 ("And indeed as to Elijah and also Enoch, who was before the Flood, it is written in the sacred books that they disappeared and were not known to have died") and Philo of Alexandria (Qaest. in. Genesis 1.86). The eschatological return of Elijah is described in clear terms in Sirach 48:
"Then the prophet Elijah arose like a fire, his word flaring like a torch. It was he who brought famine on them, and who decimated them in his zeal ... He was taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot with fiery horses; designated in the prophecies of doom to allay God's wrath before the fury breaks, to turn the hearts of fathers towards their children [cf. Malachi 3:24] and to restore the tribes of Jacob. Happy shall they be who see you" (Sirach 48:1-2, 9-11; written in the early second century BC).
The many references to Elijah in the gospels also play on this eschatological expectation current at the time (cf. Matthew 11:4, 16:4, 17:10-12, 27:47-49, Mark 9:11-13, Mark 15:35-36, Luke 1:17, 9:8, 19). His chariot-bound return is described in the Sybilline Oracles:
"Then the Thesbite, driving a heavenly chariot at full stretch from heaven, will come on earth and then display three signs to the whole world, as life itself perishes. Alas, for as many as are found bearing in the womb on that day, for as many as suckle infant children, for as many as dwell upon the wave, alas, for as many as will see that day" (Sybilline Oracles 2.187-193; written in the second century AD).
The return of both Enoch and Elijah is also expressed in the Jewish apocalypse of 4 Ezra (written in the late first century AD): "Whoever remains after all that I have foretold you shall be saved and shall see my salvation and the end of the world. And they shall see the men who were taken up, who from their birth have not tasted death, and the heart of the earth's inhabitants shall be changed and converted to a different spirit" (6:25-26). The last part of this verse quotes Malachi 3:24 and is similar to the expectation in Sirach 48:9-11 and thus clearly has Elijah in view. Irenaeus, Adversus Haereses (5.5.1-2) also affirms that both Enoch and Elijah were taken up into heaven without dying and are alive even to this day. Other statements that describe Enoch and Elijah as the martyred "two witnesses" include the following:
"So then the branches of the fig tree will sprout. This is the house of Israel only. There will be many martyrs by his hand. Many will die and become martyrs. For Enoch and Elijah will be sent that they might teach them that this is the Deceiver [i.e. the false messiah who arose in 2:8-10] who must come into the world and do signs and wonders to deceive. And on account of those who die by his hands will be martyrs and will be reckoned with the good and righteous martyrs who have pleased God in their life" (Apocalypse of Peter 2:11-13; written in the second century AD).
"Enoch no doubt was translated, and so was Elijah, nor did they experience death. It was postponed and only postponed, most certainly: they are reserved for the suffering of death, that by their blood they may extinguish the Antichrist" (Tertullian, De Anima, 50; written in the early third century AD).
"For when the threescore and two weeks are fulfilled, and Christ is come, and the Gospel is preached in every place, the time being then accomplished, there will remain only one week, the last, in which Elijah will appear and Enoch, and in the midst of it the abomination of desolation will be manifested by the Antichrist, announcing desolation to the world. And when he comes the sacrifice and oblation will be removed, which now are offered to God in every place by the nations....By the one week, therefore, he meant the last week which is to be at the end of the whole world, of which week the two prophets Enoch and Elijah will take up the half. For they will preach 1,260 days clothed in sackcloth, proclaiming repentance to the people and to all the nations" (Hippolytus, Commentary on Daniel, 22, 43; written in the early third century AD).
"Then when Elijah and Enoch hear that the shameless one has appeared in the holy places, they will come down and wage war against him saying, 'Are you not ashamed seeing that you are estranged constantly? You became an enemy of heavenly beings, now you have acted against those on earth as well. You became an enemy of angels and powers. You are the enemy for all time. You fell from heaven like the morning stars. You have changed. Your substance has been darkened. Are you not ashamed, you who hurl yourself against God. You are the Devil.' The shameless one will hear, become angry and wage war against them in the marketplace of the great city. He will spend seven days fighting with them and kill them. For three and a half days they will lie dead in the marketplace in full view of all the people. But on the fourth day they will arise again and rebuke him, saying to him, 'O you have not suffered? Do you not know that we live in the Lord, in order that we may rebuke you whenever you say, 'I have overpowered them?' We will lay aside the flesh of this body and kill you without you being able to utter a sound at that time, because we live in the Lord always, whereas you are a perpetual enemy.' The shameless one will listen in anger and wage war against them. The whole city will surround them. At that time they will raise cries of joy towards heaven, shining forth as the whole world watches them. The lawless one will not prevail against them.... After that Elijah and Enoch descend. They lay aside the flesh of the world and put on the flesh of the spirit. They pursue the lawless one and kill him without his being able to utter a sound. At that time he will melt before them like ice which melts through fire" (Apocalypse of Elijah 15:8-17:4; written in the late third century AD).
"Those times will be like three years, and I will make three years like three months, and the three months like three weeks, and the three weeks like three days, and the three days like three hours, and the three hours like three moments -- as the prophet David said, 'You have broken down this throne to the earth, you have shortened the days of his time, you have poured out shame for him.' And then I will send Enoch and Elijah for reproving him. They will show that he is a liar and a deceiver. He will kill them on the altar, as the prophet said, 'Then they will offer on the altar young bulls' (Apocalypse of John, 8; written in the fourth century AD).
"But the Lord holding the hand of Adam delivered him unto Michael the archangel, and all the saints followed Michael the archangel, and he brought them all into the glory and beauty (grace) of paradise. And there met with them two men, ancients of days, and when they were asked of the saints: 'Who are you that have not yet been dead in Hades with us and are set in paradise in the body?' Then one of them answering, said: 'I am Enoch who was translated here by the word of the Lord, and this that is with me is Elijah the Thesbite which was taken up in a chariot of fire, and up to this day we have not tasted death, but we are here until the coming of Antichrist to fight against him with signs and wonders of God, and to be slain by him in Jerusalem, and after three days and a half to be taken up again alive on the clouds" (Acts of Pilate 25; written in the fourth century AD).
This was the dominant view in the early church. However it is worth noting that this was NOT the viewpoint of the author of Revelation who borrowed this apocalyptic scenario (which probably originated in the Oracles of Hystaspes, a Jewish apocalypse dating before the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, and preserved in varying forms in the Apocalypse of Elijah and Lactantius, De Divinis Institionibus 7.17) but made his own modifications to it. In Revelation 11:1-14, the "two witnesses" are instead clearly identified as Moses and Elijah, not Enoch and Elijah. There is also a Jewish tradition that puts Moses into the role of Enoch: "He [God] said, 'Moses, I swear to you, as you devoted your life to their service in the world, so too in the time to come when I bring Elijah the prophet to them, the two of you shall come together" (Deuteronomy Rabbah 3.17). The ascension of Moses to heaven (whether bodily or in the spirit) was part of early Jewish and Christian tradition, as can be seen in Josephus, Antiquities 4.326, Philo of Alexandria, De Sacrificiis, 8 (who says that Moses was "translated", the same verb used for Elijah and Enoch), and of course the Assumption of Moses (which is probably alluded to in Jude 9). The pairing of Moses and Elijah in Revelation also is paralleled by the appearance of both Moses and Elijah at Jesus' transfiguration in the synoptic gospels (cf. Mark 9:4-5, Matthew 17:3-4, Luke 9:30-33; cf. Tertullian, Adversus Marcionem 4.22.1). An even later tradition claimed that the two witnesses were Elijah and Jeremiah (cf. Victorinus, Commentary in Apocalypse, 11.3).