WTS Fornicates With Beastly CSCE

by MadApostate 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • MadApostate
    MadApostate

    Here is an excerpt and link to a 1998 "public briefing" conducted by CSCE, in which "Jehovah's Witnesses" European activities are made to be the primary focus.

    Willy Fautré, Director of Human Rights Without Frontiers, and James McCabe from WTS Legal are the 2 guest speakers.

    James Pellechia and Jim Andrik of the WTS are audience members who ask leading questions in the discussion session.

    The opening statement below gives good background info on CSCE.

    I will also try to post some excerpts from the report.

    Again, can you picture Jesus, Paul, or other member of the first century christian congregation appearing before a non-Roman controlled governmental body to request their help with the christians dealings with the Roman government?

    When did any of them ever appear before a governmental body except when they were under arrest?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    DETERIORATION OF RELIGIOUS LIBERTY IN EUROPE
    WEDNESDAY, JULY 22, 1998

    Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe

    Washington, D.C.

    The briefing convened in Room HC-5, U.S. Capitol, Washington, D.C., at 1:10 p.m., Wayne Merry, Helsinki Commission Staff Member, presiding.

    Mr. Merry. Good afternoon, and welcome to this public briefing by the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe. My name is Wayne Merry, Senior Advisor to the Commission.

    I've started a little late on the view that some people might have as much difficulty finding this room as I did, but I would like to proceed now.

    For people who are not familiar with the Commission and its work, let me briefly describe the procedure we will use today.
    The Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe, also known as the Helsinki Commission, is a small, but independent, U.S. government agency created by law for the purpose of monitoring implementation of the commitments of the Helsinki Final Act and of other documents of the Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe, the OSCE.

    The focus of our activities is very heavily on human rights questions. We have been in existence for over 20 years, and I think have a laudable track record over that period.

    The work of the Commission is all public; we do no classified work. A good deal of what we do is conducted in public briefings and public hearings of this type. This session is being transcribed and will be published and available both in hard copy and on the Commission's web site, however, not too soon, it takes a while for the transcriptions to come back from the printers.

    There is information on the Commission available on the table outside, and if any of you wish to be on our addressee list or find out more about us members of the Commission staff here will be happy to help you.

    Our procedure today will be to hear statements from our two visiting guest experts, and then we will have an open discussion session, in which there can be comments and questions from members of the audience on the very important theme that we are dealing with today.

    Let me say that the question of problems of religious liberty is one which is occupying an increasing priority and attention from the Helsinki Commission. This is by no means a new theme in our work. During the Cold War, however, most of the attention that we gave on questions of religious liberty were focused in the eastern countries, countries with at least formerly communist and atheist ideologies, and the problem was one of the situation of religious believers in state political systems which were either overtly hostile or discriminatory toward those believers and towards organized religion.
    Today, in the aftermath of the Cold War, and regrettably the geographic scope of our interest has widened, as we are concerned with what we see as a developing pattern of discrimination against religious minorities and other belief groups in a number of countries in the OSCE region.

    I will note a number of specific cases on which the Commission has been very active. Most of you are aware of the new law in the Russian Federation on religious activities. This is one which members of the Commission and Commission staff have had an active dialogue with Russian Government officials and legislators, and while there have been some positive developments on that legislation in recent months it is certainly one which we follow with concern and which we will be continuing to monitor very closely.

    Recently, Uzbekistan has promulgated a new rule on religious activities which we find very disturbing, both because of the actual content of the statute and because in some of the public statements made by senior government officials at the time that it was introduced, and this is a case which I think we are going to be following with great attention.

    Many of the other former communist countries have similar problems which are the focus of a good deal of our efforts. However, unlike during the period of the Cold War, we now must devote a fair amount of our attention to countries further west. It is not new for the Commission to express concern about problems with religious minorities in some of the western countries. For example, we have been concerned about problems with religious minorities in Greece for many years.

    More recently, however, we have had to spend time and attention on countries where traditionally this had not been much of a subject of concern for us. There is, however, for example, a new law in Austria, which members of the Helsinki Commission spoke directly with members of the Austrian Parliament during a trip in January, which is a subject of concern.
    More recently, the Inquiry Commission of the German Federal Bundestag issued its final report, which we have been examining, and which certainly has some very disturbing elements.

    Also, there have been practices in France and in Belgium, which we shall hear more about today, which are disturbing to us.
    Let me say that the Helsinki Commission proceeds always on the basis of those principles contained in the Helsinki Final Act and in other OSCE documents, so this is not the case of a United States organization trying to apply American standards to European countries. We are very well aware of the fact that most European countries proceed from a tradition of a state sanctioned or state sponsored church, but the principles contained in the Helsinki documents are internationally accepted principles by all of the states party to the Helsinki Final Act, and they involve, with great priority, fundamental freedoms of religious belief and other belief and of practice. And, it is these principles which we seek to monitor and where we hope to improve compliance.

    Let me note that today's briefing is only one in a series of public sessions sponsored by the Helsinki Commission on this important subject. The Helsinki Commission will be in collaboration with the House International Relations Committee sponsoring a joint public hearing next week, on Thursday, July 30th at 10:00 in the morning, in Room 2172 in the Rayburn House Office Building, on continuing religious intolerance in Europe, and you are all certainly invited to attend that session.

    Let me also note that the priority and interest which the Helsinki Commission devotes to this important question is reflected in the recent creation in the Helsinki Commission's permanent staff of a position, counsel for religious liberties, occupied by Karen Lord who is with us today. If any of you have any specific questions concerning the Commission's work in this area, I suggest you may wish to be in touch with her.

    Today we are honored to have two expert witnesses, who will give us their views on this subject. These are Mr. Willy Fautré, Director of the Human Rights Without Frontiers organization in Belgium, and Mr. James McCabe, who is the Assistant General Counsel of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, and I will ask each of them to speak in turn.
    Mr. Fautré, who was born in Belgium in 1944, is both the founder and the chairman of Human Rights Without Frontiers, which is a secular organization promoting rule of law, democracy and human rights. The organization was created in 1989, fortuitously, the year which the Berlin Wall came down, and it gives priority to the field of religious liberty, and it has a press service in both English and French.

    This link will take you to the rest of this very lengthy report:

    . http://www.house.gov/csce/2religbrief.htm

  • Moxy
    Moxy

    i wouldnt raise a hue and cry every time the society uses a political organization for its benefit. i see you are trying to differentiate it from what paul did but i find this argument tenuous. yes, paul was under arrest, but so are many witnesses in europe. yes, the appeal is being made to a body besides the one most directly responsible, but one can hardly compare the political structure of first centruy rome with today's. the fact is paul made use of the political governments more than he had to, by appealing to first his roman citizenship and then to caeser.

    the ONLY thing that sets the UN issue apart is the nature of the agreement. if this were simply a registration with the UN as a humanitarian aid group, then no JW would be very alarmed. its the fact that the registration comes with certain terms.

    the analogy to paul would be like if he appealed to caeser and caeser said, 'ok paul. im gonna help you. but only if you do something for me. you do a lot of preaching and people listen to you. so could you try and give me and my government some good press while you're at it. tell people about positive our ideals are and how you support them. in fact, let me show around here a bit so you can see all the great programs and projects we have going on so you can let your audience know. hows that sound?'

    now, you can ask the question: can you imagine paul or jesus agreeing to this situation?

    mox

  • CornerStone
    CornerStone

    Hello MA,

    It is quite obvious for anyone to see that the WTS will do ANYTHING to survive, even prostitute themselves out and have "intimate relations" with other organizations "controled by Satan".

    In light of the changing world conditions being "no part of the world" has taken on new meaning. But it is going to take a lot of this associating with worldly orgs to get the attention of the R&F JW. Being unprepared, the avarage JW works too hard and is too encumbered by lifes affairs, (including witness bs), for the orgs actions to have THAT much of an impact on their lives. We'll see.

    CornerStone

  • MadApostate
    MadApostate

    In 1998, the WTS and HRWF appeared at the CSCE's "Public Briefing", conducted by a "staffer".

    In 1999, the WTS and HRWF appeared at the CSCE's "Hearing", conducted by actual Legislators. The only other "witness" is a French clergyman.

    In this "Hearing", the WTS was represented by Alain Garay. Here is his resume:

    "Mr. Garay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission.

    I am a French lawyer who has been involved in the cases in Strasbourg against Austria, Greece, and Bulgaria. Now I am involved in cases in Strasbourg in front of the European Commission against Russia and my own country. It is quite significant, I feel.

    Today I am in charge of approximately 1,500 cases concerning the rights of Jehovah's Witnesses."

    Here is the link to this lengthy report.

    . http://www.house.gov/csce/060899.html

  • MadApostate
    MadApostate

    In 2000, this series ratchets up to a fullblown committee hearing with many other witnesses. HRWF doesn't attend, but the WTS sends Philip Brumley this year. Jeremy Gunn also makes his first appearance. You will see him sharing billing with the WTS at other conferences.

    ---------------------------------------------

    House International Relations Committee

    Benjamin A. Gilman, Chairman
    DATE: June 14, 2000
    FOR RELEASE: Immediate
    Contact: Lester Munson, Communications Director (202)225-5021

    GILMAN CONDUCTS HEARING ON TREATMENT OF RELIGIOUS MINORITIES IN WESTERN EUROPE

    WASHINGTON (June 14) – U.S. Rep. Benjamin A. Gilman (20th-NY),

    Chairman of the House International Relations Committee, made the following statement today at a full committee hearing on the treatment of religious minorities in Western Europe:

    The Committee on International Relations meets in open session today to take testimony on the topic of "The Treatment of Religious Minorities in Western Europe." We do so as part of the full Committee's geographic responsibility for Europe.

    Today's hearing allows the Committee to turn its attention to a problem that has troubled many Americans who respect and value the nations of Western Europe -- countries who are without doubt friends of the United States and places where in general freedom flourishes.

    The "blind spot" that some of those countries seem to have is their attitude toward religious minorities. As Ambassador Felix Rohatyn has written with respect to France "recent actions by [its] government vis-a-vis sects raise questions about intolerance toward religious minorities, and contravene France's international human rights commitments" although it "is a country with a long tradition of religious freedom and rule of law."

    I want to point out that the purpose of this hearing is not to support the religious doctrines or other activities of the religious minorities active in Western Europe.

    But we are called on not only to protect the rights of those we like, but of those with whom we may disagree with as well. I have put on the record repeatedly, for example, my concern over the use of Nazi-era imagery by supporters of Scientology in their effort to make their points about German policy. But I am also here to say that I must defend their human rights.
    Holding or expressing a religious belief or worshiping in public and private as one pleases is not as such forbidden by law in Western Europe. In practice, however, expressing a minority religious belief often leads to discrimination -- the loss of a job, of educational opportunities, of the right to gain custody of one's own child or to be a foster parent -- which seriously burdens one's exercise of freedom of religion.

    Some European governments discriminate among religions, giving some favors -- such as financial aid or simply the right of clergy of that religion to visit a sick parishioner -- while withholding those privileges from others.

    Moreover, religious discrimination by private parties is far from universally discouraged. It is encouraged in some cases, for example, by the compilation and publication by governments of lists of "sects," although encouraging religious tolerance is an international human rights obligation.

    Such problems are complained of frequently and vociferously with respect to Austria, Belgium, France, and Germany. It is frankly difficult to understand how our friends in these countries can say that they have freedom of religion, given the burdens on the free exercise of religion I have mentioned and which will be described today.

    The Committee's attention has been drawn to this issue for several reasons. The practices to be discussed appear to be in contravention of internationally accepted human rights standards and seek to be leading to an atmosphere of religious intolerance.

    Americans abroad who wish to evangelize, or merely to practice their religion, professions, or businesses, face discriminatory treatment on the basis of their religion. Emerging democracies in Eastern Europe may copy the bad examples that are being set by some Western European countries.

    And finally, the growth of political extremism on the left and right in some of the same countries where religious discrimination appears to be on the rise to questions of whether there are links between such discrimination and those political trends.

    Witnesses at the hearing were: The Honorable Robert A. Seiple, Ambassador-at-Large for International Religious Freedom, U.S. Department of State; Catherine Bell, Actress; Philip Brumley, Esq., General Counsel, Jehovah's Witnesses; T. Jeremy Gunn, J.D., Ph.D., Guest Scholar, U.S. Institute of Peace; Pastor Robert A. Hunt, English Speaking United Methodist Church, Vienna, Austria (via digital video conference); Mr. Craig Jensen, Chairman and CEO, Executive Software; and The Rev. N. J. L`Heureux, Executive Director, Queens Federation of Churches.

  • JT
    JT

    moXY SAYS:
    the analogy to paul would be like if he appealed to caeser and caeser said, 'ok paul. im gonna help you. but only if you do something for me. you do a lot of preaching and people listen to you. so could you try and give me and my government some good press while you're at it. tell people about positive our ideals are and how you support them. in fact, let me show around here a bit so you can see all the great programs and projects we have going on so you can let your audience know. hows that sound

    #########

    You are one Sick Puppy

    I love it- my wie called me upstairs this am and said ck out my man Moxy- he is talking trash

    james

  • Moxy
    Moxy

    JT: i have no idea what u said. im just a white jw. was that a compliment?

    mox

  • MadApostate
    MadApostate

    HEARING BY HOUSE COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS

    Rayburn House Office Building
    June 14, 2000

    THE TREATMENT OF RELIGIOUS MINORITIES IN WESTERN EUROPE

    Effect on Institutional Level and Personal Lives

    Presented by Philip Brumley
    General Counsel for Jehovah's Witnesses

    . http://www.house.gov/international_relations/full/relminor/brumley.htm

  • waiting
    waiting

    hey moxy,

    y'all don talk trash up yonder?

    As they say down here, "Visiting Yankeeland? Better take a sweater."

    JT was giving a compliment, btw.

    waiting

  • Moxy
    Moxy

    oh well then, thanks JT. and thank you waiting. pardon my chronic uncoolness.

    mox

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