I thought this cartoon was, although plain, quite funny:
Witnessing
by Lloyd Braun 7 Replies latest jw friends
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Lloyd Braun
I also came upon these videos that I thought were well presented.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5584592553885188697
I also wanted to include this one, which in a way, is quite abstract for a video that shows both sides of an issue, from a more illuminated standpoint.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5584592553885188697
However, it is most difficult anymore for me to choose which way I lean anymore, my head being still so full of inferred or preconceived concepts which I really never thoroughly examined before accepting.
Perhaps I will always have mixed emotions, but some day I hope to be able to have a firm stand one way or another. Being man enough to admit that I don't always have the right answer is a tall enough order in itself.
What a paradox!
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Gopher
Hi Lloyd.
Jehovah is looking everywhere for witnesses, apparently !!
You posted the same YouTube link twice, but I enjoyed it (once) and commented on it under the name 'cooper79jeffr'.
Now that you've thoroughly examined the Watchtower side of the issue, have you given equal consideration to the non-Brooklyn side of things?
Have you examined www.freeminds.org to see the real history and context behind the teachings and actions of the Society? Have you given "Crisis of Conscience" a good read, or "Captives of a Concept"?
Read, read, read. The more information you have, the easier it will be to come to a good conclusion on matters.
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Lloyd Braun
Sorry for the double link post...
I believe this time I have it right...
This video is the one that presents mixed emotions.
Although maybe the original post was meant to be. This one seems to show supportive cases for the JW experience and having them around still. I think the good in them might outweigh the bad, but as they say, even a small amount of poison in a recipe is still enough to kill the person ingesting the end result.
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Gopher
Perhaps the good outweighs the bad among rank-and-file JW's. It seems they, like any other group, have people with good and bad attitudes. The organization emphasizes and even exaggerates their good experiences, and anyone who turns out to be bad is dismissed as "not having been a real Witness anyhow".
The major question is -- is it wise to be a follower of the WT Society, because they claims salvation comes only through their organization? The major issue most on this board have is with the leadership and teachings of the WT Society, and how it teaches its followers to have a narrow, smug view of the world and a superior attitude about themselves as compared to non-JW's. Also the hypocrisy and scandalous cover-ups. If you don't know what I mean, read some more.
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Lloyd Braun
Oh no, don't get me wrong. I know about all the false prophecies, lies, and especially your dead on point about the smugness. But, can their existence (even for outsiders) help the civil liberties we love as Americans? Maybe there would be more supreme court cases if they didn't exist, or were on their way out, as I suspect is the case soon anyway.
Certainly we don't care for the knock at the door though, especially in this strange time we live in. Who knows who is actually knocking.
On the other hand, (not really), isn't trespassing on someone else's private property a violation of the property owner's civil right to liberty? The other day a meat truck passed by here trying to sell steaks. I specifically insisted on prior occasions to be left alone and that I only buy my meat at the local grocer. The irony of arrogance here is so thick I could shoot myself.
Matt
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Gopher
Can their existence (even for outsiders) help the civil liberties we love as Americans?
I think the time for such progressivism on the part of the WT Society has long passed. Now their legal department is playing defense (unless you call protecting the "rights" of pedophiles progressivism, which I seriously doubt). The past WTS legal cases were mainly to establish rights for the ORGANIZATION more than for individuals. They want the right to spread their quixotic message in every way feasible, but they brook no dissension in their ranks, and tear apart families. Some civil libertarians they are.
And as to your point on the JW's being a nuisance, their proselytizing has long been viewed as 'aggressive' by many. You're correct that more now than before, folks just want to be left alone. And there's a growing distrust of strangers. However, the law says the work of proseletyzing (or selling masquerading as such) must be allowed.
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Lloyd Braun
Gopher,
I agree with everything you just said. I had not considered the way the legal department has been run lately. I have been studying the silent lambs websites, and I am just utterly shocked at the extremes they will go to, protecting criminals within, especially sexual deviants, perverts and child molesters as you mentioned.
I guess in today's world, civil liberties have to take a back seat when we have all sorts of violence and terrorists too. I certainly wouldn't want a Muslim extremist arguing in court why he cannot plan how to bomb someone's place of business, and I certainly don't want pedophiles knocking on the door either. My recent girlfriend asked me about the nature of JW's and has heard about the pedophile situation, and she had to ask me (I don't have children) if I was one. Having to answer that is alone in itself a reason to consider making a break for the door from this wicked organization.Especially if I plan to actually marry and have children some day. The last thing I need is to worry about brother "loves to touch" being near my kids.
Matt