Are JW's former Chiliasts?

by NYCkid 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  NYCkid

  Hey, I was reading Karl Marx today for one of my college classes and he mentions briefly the Chiliasts and I quote, "In their minds [French Revolutionists] May 2, 1852, had become a fixed idea, a dogma, like the day on which Christ should reappear and the millennium begin, in the minds of the Chiliasts." The footnote goes on to say about the Chiliasts, "The adherents of an ancient Christian sect, who believed in the second coming of Christ and in the establishment of the millennium, a thousand years of pardise on earth."

  Obviously this mention of the millennium believing Chiliasts struck my curiosity since that is exactly what JWs believe especially when Chiliasts believed that Satan would be let loose at the end of the 1000 years for one final battle. I was wondering if anyone knows anything about the Chiliasts? Apparently they were a sect as early as the 3rd century A.D. I did a google search and came up with some interesting stuff most notably on the link (http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/hill-charles_04_01.html). Anyway, I have come across other religion sects in my readings (primarily sects from post-Reformation Europe) that had similar beliefs and practices that the JWs still have today, like the Anabaptists for example. It's kind of interesting now since I was raised a JW and had always thought (or was taught) that the JWs were original in their beliefs.

  Anyway, I find it interesting...should have been a religion major...lol If anyone knows about Chiliasm, I'd love to learn more.

  Best,

  NYCkid
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  Frjprice

  Chiliasts or otherwise known today as millenarianism is a doctrine that was actually founded in the jewish times, primarily in the jewish apocalyptic books. the book of Henoch and the fourth book of Esdras contain several details on the coming of the messiah, the defeat of nations hostile to israel, the union of all israelites in the messianic kingdom, and the renewal of the world followed by the universal ressurection. Sound Familure?

  This was a heresy the early church battled against, one of the earliest documented heretics who taught this was a gnostic named cerinthus(if i remember right), toward the end of the first centuary. At this time, it became wide spread, even effecting some within the church. Bishop0 papias of hierapoles (whom was a deciple of the apostle John) taught something simular to this, and had to later be corrected.

  It has also carried down to today, most fundamentalists including JW's teach millenarianism.
• 

  NYCkid

  Thanks Fjrprice,

  I find this sort of thing fascinating and you've sparked my curiosity further. I didn't realize that the Jews had a collection of apocalyptic books. These must have had an influence with the New Testament's book of Revelation??? How far back do these writings go? Yes, it all sounds very familiar especially with the pro Iran war, Christian and Jewish Zionist movement going on right now (Rev. Hagee and the like). Can you recommend any books that discuss the ancient Jewish apocalyptic movement, etc? Generally I find it fascinating how the JWs and other fundamentalists (including Jewish and Islamic fundamentalists) interpret the holy books literally and with such morbid fervor.
  
  By the way, congratulations on your ordination. Catholics are the beholders of some of the world's most extraordinarily beautiful churches.

  Best,

  NYCkid
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  writetoknow

  Nothing new under the sun! Unless of course you rewrite history and claim it as your own.
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  Doug Mason

  I suggest you Google search for "Qumran", probably in combination with "pesher". You will find that these Jews of the 1st and 2nd century Before Christ operated similarly to the Governing Body in its operation and interpretation of biblical prophecy.

  If you want to look at an interesting modern parallel, go to:

  http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/jdtabor/waco.html

  Information at the site is also relevant to certain prolific posters at JWD.

  Doug
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  tula

  Where is Leolaia when you need her?

  Doug, this is what google has to say about Leolaia

  Hell is Hades and Tartarus, most direct link to Paganism [Archive ...

  You might want to read what Leolaia (and John Day) ... Leolaia appears to know more about “God” than anyone else on the Internet . :notworthy: ... www.iidb.org/vbb/archive/index.php/t-183787.html - 29k - Cached - Similar pages She is usually around here someplace. If she doesn't show up maybe you could pm her and ask your question. The Way to Paradise - Google Books Result by W. E. Van Amburgh - 2005 - Religion - 312 pagesAcknowledgment ^ Dedication The editor is especially grateful for the generous assistance of four individuals: First, to Leolaia, who provided a great deal ... books.google.com/books?isbn=1411659716... If anybody is knowledgable about Chiliast group, I bet she has run into it. This is a new one on me and I would certainly like to see more information about it.
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  greendawn

  Apparently the JWs have nothing to do with chiliasts since they believe that the Christ will carry out a the final judgement against most of mankind at armageddon and not after the 1000 years are finished. As I understand it chiliasts believe that the kingdom will come and rule the world rather peacefully for 1 000 years which means no armageddon before or during those 1000 years.
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  Leolaia

  I have a thread on Charles Hill's views on Cerinthus' chiliasm:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/75776/1.ashx
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  Doug Mason

  Tula,
  
  When I said that
  
  http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/jdtabor/waco.html
  
  provides information that is also relevant to certain prolific posters at JWD, I was not thinking of Leolaia.
  
  If you read that piece, you will see it is pertinent to certain posters who focus (almost) exclusively on their invented chronology and numerology.
  
  Doug
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  Leolaia

  LOL, I've been googled.