Recently several threads have been under discussion concerning the possible change in the understanding of the JW “this generation that will not pass away” teaching. Since the change in the early 1990s that sought to disconnect the doctrine from its previous anchor date of 1914 and another change in 2007 to free it from 1935, it seems now that more alteration is in the works. In The Scotsman’s thread, he says that as these “new light” understandings come out of the WTS, “Most R & F JWs will embrace this with both hands.” I began to wonder why this would be so, since with each new push of the doctrine to the sidelines, the “Great Day of Armageddon” and the JWs paradise hopes are pushed away as well. I know that the changes work to relieve the too, too blatant dissonance between the previously set dates and their conflict with reality. But I wonder if something more might not be at work in the average JWs eagerness to sup up this sort of “new light” which in effect keeps them plugging along in “this old system of things” indefinitely. Could it be that deep down inside, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not really want Armageddon to come? I know in my life, I have had the experience of getting something I had long yearned for, only to find that quite often, having is not nearly as satisfying as wanting. Perhaps, deep inside, JWs know that the supposed slaughter at Armageddon would make 911 or any other human slaughter of history seem like a paper cut next to a decapitation. Perhaps each of them knows, as I did, that they have never been truly able to reconcile Jehovah’s reputed love with this massive bloodshed, especially when it comes down to considering actual individuals instead of heaving masses of unnamed worldly people. But beyond those reasons, I wonder it the hidden antipathy for Armageddon might arise from the fact that it would be a stupendous upheaval of the status quo. Certainly it would be a disruption of the comforts of our modern infrastructure. But would it not also be an overturning of the psychological underpinnings of JW group identity? In “this system” they see themselves as special, as having insider knowledge the vast majority cannot understand, or do not want to. They revel in episodes of persecution that serve to buttress this feeling of us against the world (with God on our side). In rumored threats from Satan and from his worldly henchmen, JWs have something to struggle against, and that gives them unity, direction, purpose, and an identity. All that would be gone after Armageddon. A new persona would have to be forged. No matter what the circumstances, such a shift is usually threatening. And finally, what if, after you got to paradise, you didn’t like the new set-up, the new power structures, the new rules, the people who you had to live forever with? No more “hope” for future relief would be available, only submission or death. Maybe they are all a little more comfortable keeping the whole thing as an idealized nebulous future happening by resetting the chronological markers to non-specific coordinates.
Do JWs really want Armageddon?
by truman 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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truman
I tried to make paragraphs. If anyone can help me get that right, I would appreciate it. Thanks
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IP_SEC
Recently several threads have been under discussion concerning the possible change in the understanding of the JW “this generation that will not pass away” teaching. Since the change in the early 1990s that sought to disconnect the doctrine from its previous anchor date of 1914 and another change in 2007 to free it from 1935, it seems now that more alteration is in the works. In The Scotsman’s thread, he says that as these “new light” understandings come out of the WTS, “Most R & F JWs will embrace this with both hands.” I began to wonder why this would be so, since with each new push of the doctrine to the sidelines, the “Great Day of Armageddon” and the JWs paradise hopes are pushed away as well. I know that the changes work to relieve the too, too blatant dissonance between the previously set dates and their conflict with reality. But I wonder if something more might not be at work in the average JWs eagerness to sup up this sort of “new light” which in effect keeps them plugging along in “this old system of things” indefinitely. Could it be that deep down inside, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not really want Armageddon to come? I know in my life, I have had the experience of getting something I had long yearned for, only to find that quite often, having is not nearly as satisfying as wanting. Perhaps, deep inside, JWs know that the supposed slaughter at Armageddon would make 911 or any other human slaughter of history seem like a paper cut next to a decapitation. Perhaps each of them knows, as I did, that they have never been truly able to reconcile Jehovah’s reputed love with this massive bloodshed, especially when it comes down to considering actual individuals instead of heaving masses of unnamed worldly people. But beyond those reasons, I wonder it the hidden antipathy for Armageddon might arise from the fact that it would be a stupendous upheaval of the status quo. Certainly it would be a disruption of the comforts of our modern infrastructure. But would it not also be an overturning of the psychological underpinnings of JW group identity? In “this system” they see themselves as special, as having insider knowledge the vast majority cannot understand, or do not want to. They revel in episodes of persecution that serve to buttress this feeling of us against the world (with God on our side). In rumored threats from Satan and from his worldly henchmen, JWs have something to struggle against, and that gives them unity, direction, purpose, and an identity. All that would be gone after Armageddon. A new persona would have to be forged. No matter what the circumstances, such a shift is usually threatening. And finally, what if, after you got to paradise, you didn’t like the new set-up, the new power structures, the new rules, the people who you had to live forever with? No more “hope” for future relief would be available, only submission or death. Maybe they are all a little more comfortable keeping the whole thing as an idealized nebulous future happening by resetting the chronological markers to non-specific coordinates.
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Carmel
I also wonder if many if not most JWS feel scared to death that they are not "good enough" based on how big brother brow beats them so they aren't gonna make it through the big A. I think a lot of there expressions of superiority are a cover for basic insecutity before the big J. carmel
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Fat Greg
I'm starting to believe that its a mixture of both, they both want it in a dark fantasy sense and don't want it because you can never really know for sure... heres an email I received today from an elder in the congregation I grew up in entitled "weird dream" "Hello Friends, I am not one to write long notes, but I feel compelled with that one. I woke up this morning 2 hours earlier than usual, and couldn't fall back asleep, and all day today I have been thinking about this dream that woke me shivering and crying. I know Jehovah does not talk to us through dreams anymore, we have His Word The Bible for that and the discreet slave. But as a scientist, I know, we use dream to solve our problems and look into ourselves. So let me share a little bit of my psyche with you through this Epic dream. Hey, for all I know I have been reading too much in the revelation book . The time this dream encompasses is one day before Armageddon and one day post. One minute I was on stage during an assembly fixing the stage and the next minute I was running away from attackers with a group of friends in front of me, some lost their lives in the chase, as I am running someone is handing him a weapon to defend myself, but for some reason I couldn't bring myself to take it. After a while we found ourselves in a little room like a hut really with no protection against the environment but even less against evil attackers. I got Captured and there were two bullies holding me down, while their leader is looking all around for the best way to attack the hut/house, as this man gave the word to get rid of me and the friends were about to put a piece of white cloth up, there was this blinding flash of light and it was as though all the attackers fell asleep, as I run toward the house, pursued by the leader of the band one of the brothers took a knife, to fight my pursuer and there was a tall man who said if you think you have more power than Jehovah go ahead use your knife. The brother dropped the knife, and all of the attackers were exterminated. It was not the attack that was the worst part of my dream but what happens afterward, after what I perceived to be Armageddon. There was this raging river flowing, and I find myself frantically looking for my parents... they were no where to be found, and I proceeded to look for some of the young ones or not so young as they are over 20...they were no where to be found either. As I continue in my search I found myself on the river banks with some of my friends from Connecticut, most of them was there, but they also was sad and started to cry as they talk their peers and family members who are in the truth missing. that's the point I wake up crying and shivering... My Take on this Dream Satan's system cannot give us any "weapon" to defend ourselves, pure and sample: they are the enemy. and besides, Only Jehovah arms us with what we need to protect ourselves namely the complete armor: Truth, Justice, Peace, Faith, Hope of salvation, His Word. The war is a spiritual one not physical. As much as I see other people this insight in myself: I must stay faithful to Jehovah, no matter what trickery or persecution Satan or his system of things may throw at me. I must remain faithful to see the day of salvation. Often when we think about Armageddon, or the day after we think about all of the rejoicing as truly the Kingdom has started to reign both in heaven and earth. Yet I find myself Horrified at the prospect of losing loved ones, as this is the death where there is no hope of Resurrection. In the course of our ministry, we spend a lot of time seeking those who are deserving, in the territory, but what about our personal territory: our household, our extended family, our Jobs? What about the young ones in the congregation that the world keeps trying to pull out of Jehovah's organization. In thinking about this ordeal today, and how disturbed I am, I realized that I don't talk to my mother and father and fleshly brothers enough about the Kingdom as the tool Jehovah is going to use to sanctify His wonderful Name. This a wake up call indeed for me as I can do something about it now, because once Armageddon comes "it's too late the horse has left the barn." Let us all continue to build and strengthen ourselves through regular Bible reading and study. Let us continue to reach out to those in the congregation, as well as our families so that they too can glorify the great name of our Father Jehovah God. Agape, Dan" Now, when I read this the first time around it seemed like a genuine concern for the people he cares about, but when I read it again, and then another time I noticed one thing that is consistent among devout JWs. in his dream he was in danger but God protected him from serious harm, and he felt that the some how had to play the hero to save the lost souls (i.e people who haven't been attending their meetings, active field service etc...)this is just another example of thier arrogance. Its one not to talk to you non-JW family members and realize thats not a healthy family relationship and decide to contact them, and its entirely another thing to wake up from a bad dream and decide to contact your non-JW fam to "save" them. I recall having this sort of dark fantasy when I was younger like being in class and some sort of supernatural thing was going on in the clouds and hearing a loud Go-like voice and being the only one in the class able to explain what was going on while everyone is perplexed and asking me questions about what they can do, and I'm like "it might be too late, because when I tried to preach to some of you about God's kingdom, you weren't interested..." pathetic, I know. but I'm sure many witness have these types of fantasies, and believe me their belief that armageddeon is close is as ripe as ever, if you noticed in the email he mentioned how their studying the Revelation book agian.
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flipper
Not if they are living a secret life , sinning. LOL! Peaceout, Mr. Flipper
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LongHairGal
They don't all want it and I know for a fact they don't.
I know of one person who says they would rather live and die in this system because the thought of the great tribulation is too much to handle. They feel that everyday life just living in this world is bad enough. Somebody else I know has a friend who hopes this system never ends. I guess people have their reasons and you mentioned several of them in your post. I have heard several ex-JWs say they would never want to live forever with some of these people.
What scares me is what you said about how it would be either acceptance or death and there would be no 'looking forward to another new system' because it already arrived. If you didn't like it there it would be too bad. I would also feel badly about all the dead who I might miss and might like far better than any of the JWs. I would also be concerned about the obnoxious, dictatorial personalities that would feel they have free reign to terrorize everybody. These are the arrogant bastards that are now chomping at the bit and just waiting for everybody to drop dead so they can march in and claim their homes and possessions. Can you imagine the oppression and fighting?? I could see a civil war starting soon after the start of this 'new system'.
This new system sounds like a nightmare in many ways unless there was immediate and direct hands-on attention from a loving and caring God.
LHG