ATTENTION: 587/607 Buffs..

by deaconbluez 8 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  deaconbluez

  How would you answer this:
  
  "It's simple: We know there was a 70-year exile, and that that the Jews returned in 537BCE. So 537BCE minus 70 years equals 607BCE!"
• 

  Gopher

  I'll borrow an answer from here: http://www.607v587.com/websitepage4.htm

  The prophet Jeremiah predicted that the Babylonians would destroy Jerusalem and make the city and land a desolation. (Jeremiah 25:8, 9) He added: "And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years." (Jeremiah 25:11)

  The Prophecy in Jeremiah 25 is written to Judah and the surrounding nations. If it is not why does verse 9 say "I will bring him against this land and against its inhabitants and against all the nations round about." Verse 11 says "And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years". If the seventy years only applied to Judah, what does the seventy years mean to all "these other nations?" And if it just applied to Judah, why does the wording say "these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon" and not use the singular "nation?" This prophecy is describing 70 years of servitude for all the nations including Judah. In verse 17-26, Jehovah tells Jeremiah to take his cup of rage and give it to the nations. The first nation mentioned is Jerusalem and the cities of Judah and then it goes on to mention 24 other kings that will taste the cup of rage. Verse 26 says "and all the other kingdoms of the earth that are on the surface of the ground." so we see that it covered more than just Judah:

  So the assigning the 70 years just to the Jews is arbitrary and misleading.
• 

  Beta Male

  the temple was rebuilt in 516, plus 70 and you get to 586. i always thought that was kind of interesting
• 

  changeling

  The simple ansewr to that simple question is that history does not support 607. They are plugging in the 70 years here and trying to make it fit. The math is irrelevant in the face of historical fact.

  changeling
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Here's more than one way from http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/jeremiah_25_11.htm:

  In Jeremiah 25:11-12, the prophet said that the Jews would suffer 70 years of Babylonian domination. Jeremiah also said Babylon would be punished after the 70 years. Both parts of this prophecy were fulfilled. In 609 BC, which is about 2600 years ago, Babylon captured the last Assyrian king and took over the holdings of the Assyrian empire, to which the land of Israel previously had been subjugated. Babylon later asserted its domination by taking many Jews as captives to Babylon, and by destroying Jerusalem and the Temple. The domination ended in 539 BC, when Cyrus, a leader of Persians and Medes, conquered Babylon and brought an end to its empire. Cyrus later offered the captive Jews the freedom to return to their homeland. The prophecy also might have been fulfilled in another way too: The Babylonians had destroyed Jerusalem's Temple in 586 BC, and the Jews rebuilt it and consecrated it 70 years later, in 516 BC. Having the Temple again showed, in a very important way, that the effects of Babylonian domination truly had come to an end.

  The more I read apart from WT books, the more I realize there are other answers.
  I could say the Bible writer was wrong. That would fit my understanding of the Bible.
  But I believe this was written after the captivity, not as an actual prophecy, so the
  writer had some 70 year period in mind. He wasn't clear because the people at that
  time of the writing all knew the general period, so he forgot to be clear.

  It's like telling a teacher in the U.S. about the NCLB program. We all go "N C what?"
  But since the person listening is a teacher, they know it is the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND program.
  The Jews knew the time period. The writer took that for granted. We, today, don't know for sure.
• 

  Lady Liberty

  Dear Deconbluez,

  I feel a bit rusty on the subject as I haven't talked about it in a few months.. But the key is in the 70 years. The Bible speaks of 70 years of servitude, not complete exile. Yes, ones were taken during the 609 time period, but that was way before Jerusalem was actually destroyed. Jerusalem was actually destroyed in 586/587. Remember Daniel, Shadrack, Meshack and Abendigo? They were some of the first ones to get taken captive to Babylon. If I remember correctly, it was around 607 some time. So for them, they would have been in servitude for 70 years by the time Cyrus released them from servitude in 537. But for years up to 586/587 there were thousands at a time taken at different times. It was a big help to me to actually read the account in Daniel and Jeremiah. Keep in mind the Bible tells us it was in Nebachadnezzars 19th reignal year that he destroyed Jerusalem. However, in 607 he wasn't even King yet, but rather a prince. In 605 he suceeded the throne. So you can see 607 was not his 19th reignal year. Here is something I posted some time ago that may help you.

  Sincerely,

  Lady Liberty

  Hi everyone,

  I just made this chart for my brother-in-law using the Bible as well as the book entitled Assyrian & Babylonian Chronicles by A.K. Grayson printed in 1975. Grayson is a world renound expert used to decipher the Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles for the British Museum. I checked out this book from the local library. Although they had to send away to a College University for it. A interesting note: the Society uses this very book in the Insight Vol.2 under Nebuchadnezzar to support their dates. When I got this book, it was for the purpose of checking their dates and quotes of this author. As you will see by this chart, they have misquoted him to serve their own deceitful purpose! I included scriptures that support the chronicles. Like I said, I made this for my brother-in-law, but thought someone out there might be able to use it.

  Have a great night!

  Lady Liberty

  The Seventy Years: 609 to 539 BCE

  609- Nabopolassars 17 th reignal year. Babylon was dominating all surrounding nations. See Jer. 25:11, 25:17- 26. 27:6-8, 12-13(All the nations will have to SERVE the king of Babylon seventy years.) The 70 years begin. ( Babylonian Chronicle 3- BM 21901)

  607- Nabopolassars 19 th reignal year. Nebuchadnessar was not even in power yet! He was only a crowned prince at this time. (Babylonian Chronicle 4 –BM 22047)

  605- Nabopolassars 21 st reignal year. Battle of Carchemish , between Egypt and Babylon. Nabopolassar dies and Nebuchadnezar accends the thrown. This is year 0 for Nebuchadnezzars reign. Daniel finds himself exiled to Babylon, as well as the Royal offspring of Jerusalem, the utensils of the house of Jehovah were carried to Babylon. See Daniel 1- 2:1. Jer. 29:1,20 (Babylonian Chronicle 5- BM 21946)

  603- Nebuchadnezzars second reignal year. See. Dan. 2:1

  586/587- Jerusalem burned. Nebuchadnessars ninteenth reignal year. See Jer. 52:12-16 (There were still lowly ones left remaining in the city.)

  562-End of Nebuchadnezzars reign.

  557-Neriglissars third reignal year. ( Chronicle 6 –BM 25124)

  556- Nabonidus becomes King. (Nabonidus Chronicle 7- BM35382)

  539- 70 are fullfilled. Nabonidus is King of Babylon at this time. Cyrus overtakes Babylon in one night. Handwriting on the wall. Jews released from servitude. See- Dan. 5:25-26 Jer. 25: 12 ( Nabonidus Chronicle: Chronicle 7-BM 36304)
• 

  Lady Liberty

  Here is another chart from another poster from the same thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/111283/1.ashx

  Here is something originally on Quotes web site. It is now on Reexamine.org

  http://www.reexamine.org/quotes/607bce-table.htm

  Regnal Years of Babylonian Kings During Occupation of Jerusalem

  Timeline Overview Table

  This chart summarizes the Watch Tower Society quotes collected and presented elsewhere (http://Reexamine.Quotes/607bce.htm). Please refer to that page for verification of the kingly succession and regnal years presented below.

  Remember: for BCE dates, going backwards in time means the numbers get bigger (i.e. counting backwards in time: 3 CE, 2 CE, 1 CE, 1 BCE, 2 BCE, 3 BCE, ... 539 BCE, 540 BCE, 541 BCE, etc.)

  • Begin counting backwards in time from: the fall of Babylon to the Persians (539 BCE) in the 17th year of the reign of Nabonidus
  • Count backwards in time back to: the fall of Jerusalem to Babylonians under the rule of Nebuchadnezzar II (during his 18th regnal year)

  Summary of Babylonian kings reigning over Jerusalem

  Calendar Year	Nabonidus: 17 yrs	Labashi-Marduk: < 9 months	Neriglissar: 4 yrs	Evil-Merodach 2 yrs	Nebuchadnezzar II 43 yrs
  539 BCE	17
  540	16
  541	15
  542	14
  543	13
  544	12
  545	11
  546	10
  547	9
  548	8
  549	7
  550	6
  551	5
  552	4
  553	3
  554	2
  555	1
  556	0 (accession year)	less than 9 months	4
  557			3
  558			2
  559			1
  560			0 (accession year)	2
  561				1
  562				0 (accession year)	43
  563					42
  564					41
  565					40
  566					39
  567					38
  568					37
  569					36
  570					35
  571					34
  572					33
  573					32
  574					31
  575					30
  576					29
  577					28
  578					27
  579					26
  580					25
  581					24
  582					23
  583					22
  584					21
  585					20
  586					19
  587					18 *
  588					17
  589					16
  590					15
  591					14
  592					13
  592					12
  594					11
  595					10
  596					9
  597					8
  598					7
  599					6
  600					5
  601					4
  602					3
  603					2
  604					1
  605 BCE					0 (accession year)

  * Watch Tower Society and "wordly scholars and historians" agree that Nebuchadnezzar II conquered Jerusalem during his 18th regnal year. Therefore, according to Watch Tower Society's chronology of the kings of Babylon and the lengths of their reigns, Nebuchadnezzar II conquered Jerusalem in the year 587 BCE (i.e. not 607 BCE).
• 

  scholar

  deaconbluez

  Post 307

  This simple calculation by the celebrated WT scholars cannot be refuted by either apostates who support the Jonsson hypothesis or higher critics. This simple calculation harmonizes all of the available biblical and secular data and highlights the simple fact that the seventy years of Judah were a period of servitude, exile and desolation of the land. We can be supremely confident on the basis of scripture and secular evidence that the Fall of Jerusalem beginning the seventy year period occurred in 607 BCE.

  scholar JW
• 

  anakolouthos

  bumped and bookmarked