Babylon the Great, is it religion or not?

by avidbiblereader 7 Replies latest jw friends

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  avidbiblereader

  In a recent thread about could the WTS be right about religion coming to their end, I find this thought very interesting, Is Babylon the Great really the World Empire of Religion or is it something else, not saying I am right but would love your thoughts on it.

  I am not saying that I am right, but I have been reading Rev and especially 17-19 over and over again doing research with cross references with various Bible translations, I actually want to do a small paper on it for my own.

  I really think this is one that the WTS has wrong again, in reading and praying and researching, it COULD be that Babylon the Great is not religion but rather the entire Commerical or Commerce of the world in which the political leaders throughout history have had immoral relations with and religion (which many agree, has become BIG Business) is just a part of.

  In looking at Rev 17-19 take a SLOW look at yourself, get out of WT mindset and actually look at the scriptures and ponder with cross references, you wont get religion as Babylon the Great, read the context and ask yourself,

  Who has the political enteties cadered to, who puts politcal people in power, both now and in the past, look at the context, with buying, selling, profit, industry, who became rich from her?

  In reading about ancient Babylon, she was only the daughter of Babylon, not the mother, just as Babylon the Great is the mother of ALL the harlots, could religion just be a part of it, as another harlot but not THEE Harlot?

  Just my thoughts and would love to see some extra thoughts on it, thanks and respectfully, abr
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  compound complex

  bttt - abr: Do you remember our studying BABYLON THE GREAT HAS FALLEN - GOD'S KINGDOM RULES! three different times? I'm a little out of focus mentally at the moment, but I did want to put this up ... [don't know if I ever was mentally focused on the WTS's explanation of Revelation!].

  Yours truly,

  CoCo
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  Leolaia

  If you're asking what the author described "Babylon" as being, it is clear from the context that the author was thinking of Rome. And at the time, Rome was the center of all commerce in the empire. Most the goods mentioned in ch. 18 were specifically those that had Rome as their main market (especially luxury goods, grain from Egypt, and slaves).

  Actually the idea that Babylon = false religion is rooted in the ancient understanding that Babylon = Rome. It was the Reformers who interpreted Rome as pertaining to Rome in their own day, i.e. the Papacy located in Rome. Russell received this Protestant interpretation and built on it, and Rutherford expanded it further into the "world empire of false religion".
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  marmot

  I'm siding with Thomas Jefferson on this one:
  
  "It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it [the Book of Revelation], and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherencies of our own nightly dreams." -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to General Alexander Smyth, January 17, 1825
  
  You can make the Bible say whatever the heck you want, and an examination of history shows that it has been used countless times to do just that.
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  Leolaia

  Thomas Jefferson was a bright man and to some extent he is right (especially with regard to the abuses that eisegeticists have heaped on the book, no more ably demonstrated than the Society itself), but I would heartily disagree that the book is incapable of exegetical explanation. He takes the literary conventions of apocalyptic too literally (as do those who describe the book as "hallucinations"), whereas if you compare the book with other apocalyptic works of the time and especially with other ancient sources describing the historical situation, it is not too hard to see where the scenario in the book comes from and what political points the book was making. One of the probable sources of Revelation, the Oracles of Hystaspes, was banned reading in the Roman Empire. You could be put to death if you possessed a copy of it. It used the same language of apocalyptic as Revelation did (especially in ch. 11-13), but the Romans understood very well what the book was saying. There is broad agreement among Bible scholars (those not eisegetically interested in the book beyond its original context) that Revelation focuses on Roman persecution of Christians and uses a Nero redivivus scenario (which was common at the time in Jewish, Christian, and pagan literature) to explain Nero's past outrages against Christians and predict the future destruction of Rome. If you put Revelation in the context of the literature of the time, that is how it reads.
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  a Christian

  Babylon was the nation which enslaved the Jews, God's people. Who enslaves God's people, the Christians, today? A former JW should have no trouble answering such a question. The obvious answer is the thousands of legalistic so-called "Christian" sects which now make up organized "Christianity." And they do so on a grand (make that "Great") scale. They now enslave the hearts and minds, to a greater or lesser degree, of some two billion people. And they do so, to a greater or lesser degree, in every nation on earth.
  
  Though the ancient nation of Babylon was primarily a political entity, and the bondage it imposed upon the Jewish people was primarily one of physical and geographical restraint, organized Christianity now binds God's modern people in a different way. It robs them of their Christian freedom. By telling Christians what we must think, what we must do, what we must believe, how we must act, where, how and when we must worship God, etc., etc., the "Christian" Churches of this world now enslave God's people, the Christians, just as effectively as the nation of Babylon enslaved God's people, the Jews, in the 6th Century BC. It is largely for this reason, "Babylon" being an entity which was synonymous with the enslavement of God's people, that leads me to believe "Babylon the Great" was meant to picture organized Christianity as it now exists, or at least as it will exist shortly before the time of Christ's return. Of course there are also several allusions to the trappings of organized Christianity contained in Rev. 18, such as the musicians which regularly perform during church services and the voices of brides and grooms which are often heard in churches during wedding ceremonies.
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  AGuest

  Babylon... the Great... is an adulteress... the Harlot... who "fornicates" with the kings of the earth. She represents:

  1. Those who were joined to Christ, by means of an anointing with holy spirit...

  2. And who, by means of Christ's blood, were cleansed...

  3. So that they became, again, virgins... in a spiritual sense...

  4. And thus, became part of those who would constitute his Bride...

  5. Making him their "husbandly owner"...

  6. But who exchanged that "union" for one with other "husbandly owners"...

  7. Those considered to be the "kings of the earth"...

  8. Who are NOT governmental authorities (for those stand placed in their positions by God)...

  9. But are, in fact, those who "seat themselves in the seat of Moses"...

  10. And "rule over"... the sheep...

  11. By the authority of the "ruler of this world"... Satan...

  They are those who, like Satan, do not "stand fast in the Truth," having no other leader than him, the Truth... that set them FREE... Christ. By means of their "fornication" with such "kings" they beget offspring, "daughters."

  Babylon the Great is formerly anointed who "forsook" the gift given them because they loved the glory of men and so got into bed with such men... false prophets, religious leaders, scribes and Pharisees... and as a result oppressed, even killed their brothers, including the Prophets... anyone who would expose them for the imposter, apostates and vipers that they were.

  She began to manifest during Paul's day and came into full existence after the last apostle, the last restaint, died... and her children... daughters... are the religions that have come out of her. She is RELIGION that has claimed to "belong" to Christ, but by her adulterous unions... have shown that she actually belongs to others. Many others.

  I bid you peace.

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  NewTruth

  Not..... It's anti-typical Jerusalem, the USA and all her systems within..