New world transmutation

by jacethespace 8 Replies latest watchtower bible

jacethespace

Searching the new world ~~translation~~ transmutation and examining it with the king james has opened my eyes to a few things not that i didnt notice and wonder about these before, i did i just ignored it and trusted the faithfull and discreet slave driver at the time.
In john 5:4 of the king james bible it says- For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool and troubled the water whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
In john 5:4 of the n.w.t it says 4-- absolutley nothing? Why? They left it blank probably because this doesnt fit in with the usual traditional ~~bullcrud~~ beliefs.
John 20:25 says- Consequently the other disciples would say to him " we have seen the lord" but he said to them unless i see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side i will certainly not believe [ although centuries later we expect you all to believe without sticking anything anywhere- made up bit ]
Main point there though is wasnt jesus crucified on a torture stake.
Thats funny i thought jesus had one nail put through his wrists.Not two nails.
Does anyone have any more evidence of alterations in the new world translation?
dawg

Can't help you bro, but I've read many more discouraging things about the NWT....
Mebaqqer2

The reason that the New World Translation omits John 5:4 is that the Greek text used for the translation here, Westcott and Hort (1881), omits the passage as a secondary addition. This verse is also omitted in more recent editions of the Greek New Testament such as UBS3 and Nestle-Aland 27th. The reason? Many manuscripts omit this verse. Among them are the 2nd century papyrus P66 and the early 3rd century papyrus P75. The best evidence then is that the verse is a later addition. Thus, your reason, "They left it blank probably because this doesnt fit in with the usual traditional ~~bullcrud~~ beliefs," is not the actual reason they did not include the passage.
You second point, however, about the print of "nails" is much better. The Greek text here literally reads "in the hands of him the print of the nails" (Gk. en tais cherin autou ton tupon ton helon). The New World Translation correctly translates as "in his hands the print of the nails." So the problem here is not with the New World Translation's translation of the Greek. Their teaching about the word stauros (NWT: torture stake), however, is what colors their interpretation of the passage here. For those who are interested in seeing how Jehovah's Witnesses explain this passage, see Watchtower, April 1, 1984 p. 31 and Watchtower October 15, 1969 p. 639.
Mebaqqer
(edited because the Greek text did not display correctly)
Leolaia

Re the missing verses with the dashes, that is not unique to the NWT....most modern translations omit the verses and/or put them in footnotes (as the 1984 Reference Edition does, I think). They are removed or footnoted because they are demonstrably interpolations into the text. The verse divisions were made on the basis of the Textus Receptus and not the critical text with which the translation is based on.
As for the nails question, I agree that this may be an indicator of Jesus' position on the cross in early Christian tradition. But it is not certain. Plautus mentions that the Romans sometimes "double-nailed" their victims, and this could be interpreted to mean two nails through each limb. But I agree this is more unlikely than the alternative.
TD

To illustrate what Leo and Mebaqqer2 have already said, here is how various English translations handle John 5:4
(1) Omitted from main text (Relegated to footnote in some)
New English Bible
The Holy Bible in Modern English
Revised Standard Version
New Revised Standard Version
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible
New Living Translation
New International Version
New Jerusalem Bible
Revised English Bible
The Bible in Living English (Byington)
New World Translation
Today's English Version
English Standard Version
Contemporary English Version
(2) Included in main text (Explanatory footnote in some)
King James
New King James
The Jerusalem Bible
Douay / Rheims
American Standard
New American Standard
Diaglott
Moffat
The Living New Testament
New Century Version
Young's Literal Translation
Wycliffe New Testament
Darby
(3) Included in main text but parenthesized or italicized
New Life Version
The New Testament in Modern English (Phillips)
New American Bible
The Amplified Bible
Uncertain

Not trying to be an apologist, but here is the note in my English Standard Version: "Some manuscripts insert, wholly or in part, waiting for the moving of the water; for an angel of the Lord went down at certain seasons into the pool, and stirred the water: whoever steped in first after the stirring of the water was healed of whatever disease he had." My NASB contains their translation of the text in the body of the gospel, but marks it as probably not in the original writings. The Christian Standard Bible is similarly annotated. My NKJV has the text in question with no comments on it, NIV has the extended version as a footnote.
BTW, biblegateway.com allows you to compare translations on the screen. I think it also has information on the sources for the various translations. And there is usually a display on the bookstore shelf explaining which bibles are most word-for-word and which translated thought-for thought. Interesting information for me, and why I had several different books to check.
transhuman68

Actually, the story of the pool at Bethesda doesn't make much sense with verse 4 removed. IMO it is not an interpolation at all. I think it is a glimpse into the magic world that John thought existed around him.
never a jw

New International Version (Romans, Chap. 10)
5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.” [a] 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” [b] (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” [c] (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” [d] that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth,“Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” [e] 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” [f]
Above “name of the Lord” referred clearly to Jesus
New World Transmutation (Romans Chap. 10)
For Moses writes that the man that has done the righteousness of the Law will live by it. 6 But the righteousness resulting from faith speaks in this manner: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ that is, to bring Christ down; 7 or, ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.” 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your own mouth and in your own heart”; that is, the “word” of faith, which we are preaching. 9 For if you publicly declare that ‘word in your own mouth,’ that Jesus is Lord , and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.
11 For the Scripture says: “None that rests his faith on him will be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for there is the same Lord over all, who is rich to all those calling upon him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Just as it is written: “How comely are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”

transhuman68

LOL- I am wrong again! ...the story of my life... found this quote in Bart Ehrman's 'Jesus Misquoted:

. One outstanding example is the memorable

story in John 5 of Jesus healing an invalid by the pool of Bethzatha.

We are told at the beginning of the story that a number of people — in-

valids, blind, lame, and paralyzed — lay beside this pool, and that

Jesus singled out one man, who had been there for thirty-eight years,

for healing. When he asks the man if he would like to be healed, the

man replies that there is no one who can place him in the pool, so that

"when the water is troubled" someone always beats him into it.

In our oldest and best manuscripts there is no explanation for

why this man would want to enter the pool once the waters became

disturbed, but the oral tradition supplied the lack in an addition to

verses 3-4 found in many of our later manuscripts. There we are told

that "an angel would at times descend into the pool and disturb the

water; and the first to descend after the water was disturbed would be

healed." 21 A nice touch to an already intriguing story.

New world transmutation

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