Questions about 144,000 and salvation: perseverance and assurance.

by My Struggle 5 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  My Struggle

  Awhile back I was trying to understand how the WTBTS understood the salvation of the 144,000. When looking up articles it seemed on the surface to be similar to how many Christians view salvation. The similarities were in the standard Christian doctrines of perseverance and assurance. (I know that JW in general do not have assurance of their salvation, they believe that they cannot have salvation until they make it into paradise. Further, they do not believe in the doctrine of perseverance until they make it past the 1,000-year reign. After which they would hold that no one could lose their salvation.) However, with the 144,000 it seems that they can be assured that they have salvation. Also, something made it seem like the 144,000 also followed the doctrine of perseverance; they could not lose their salvation and through God they would be able to preserve.

  Now with the doctorial change in the ‘generation’, that it is only comprised of the 144,000 and that there are young ones who are replacements for some of the 144,000 who have fallen away losing their salvation. This leads me to believe that either I misunderstood how the WTBTS understood perseverance or that WTBTS has changed that doctrine in order to allow for the doctorial change of the ‘generation.’

  Also, am I correct that the 144,000 do in fact have assurance of their salvation?

  NOTE: If anyone is unsure of the doctrine of assurance or perseverance then I will flesh it out.
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  My Struggle

  Anyone???
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  zeroday

  Also, am I correct that the 144,000 do in fact have assurance of their salvation?

  UHHH NO actually the 144,000 do not have the assurance of salvation there are multitudes of latter day JW's that strive to be one of the annointed so how else could they be of that number if there weren't the provision of the older annointed falling away for them to replace...I predict the number of annointed will not decrease but will increase in number to reflect the ever changing doctrine of the "Faithful and Descrete Slave Class" to continue to pummel the masses into obedience...
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  My Struggle

  how else could they be of that number if there weren't the provision of the older annointed falling away for them to replace

  I think that you misunderstand the doctrine of assurance, which is separate from being able to fall away. The doctrine of assurance holds that at any particular moment the individual that has salvation knows in their heart that their name is written in heaven, their sins have been forgiven, and truly have salvation; whether or not that salvation and certainty of it can be lost by falling away would be covered in the doctrine of perseverance. Perseverance centers on John 10 and especially Romans 8. It holds that once you have salvation that it cannot be lost. So, the two doctrines are separate doctrines, though often confused with each other.

  My understanding is that the 144,000 can have assurance that at any given moment they are saved. On the other hand the great crowd does not have this assurance, they can only know if they have salvation until they get to paradise. It still could be said that both could lose their salvation, which would go against perseverance. However, once the great crowd makes it past the 1,000-year reign they believe that 'they have made it' and will never be able to lose their salvation, which would adhere to perseverance. With regards to the 144,000 they know they are saved (assurance) but can lose that salvation.

  So, here is where my question comes in. When I did research on the 144,000 it seemed from the language used that they had assurance, but there was also some language that seemed if their might be the possibility of perseverance. (I do not have my WT CD handy, but will try to find and post the articles later that I gathered this from) However, as you know the 144,000 can lose their salvation. So, was there at any point a teaching that clearly fit with preservation, and if there was when was it overturned, allowing for the 144,000 to fall away and younger ones replace them? Is it also possible that the WTBTS from the beginning never taught perseverance and I was just reading too much into the article?

  If anyone does not follow, just answer this. At what year did the WTBTS allow for replacements of the 144,000 and in what article was that published? I guess that would get me close enough to be able to find some sort of answer about perseverance.
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  Zico

  They would have assurance, yes. You're not meant to partake of the bread and wine unless you're certain you're anointed, if you have any doubt, they say you're not anointed. Being certain about selection (election?) would suggest assurance.
  
  I don't think they've ever taught perseverance of the saints. The Anointed have perseverance/immortality as soon as they get to Heaven, they don't have to wait till the end of the thousand years. The Great Crowd have to wait till the end of the Thousand years before they are granted perseverance, so the Anointed have the advantage.
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  grewupJWnoselfesteem78-95

  in my experince no J.W has assurance of salvation.................. what about the anointed from 1935 that are now clased as unfaithful in order to keep the governing body and right to be Jehovah's only mouthpiece alive........ during my JW life i never heard of salvation being guaranteed..............never.....