Hi,
Another central difference in the beliefs of JWs and most Christians.
The WT teaches that the Holy Spirit is "God's active force" and certainly not a person or part of the Trinity (which they say doesn't exist).
As the Holy Spirit is fundamental to understanding Godly things (including the whole of the Bible) then we should really have an understanding about God's Spirit if we want to understand the Bible.
1 Corinthians 2:14 (New International Version)
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
So why do JWs say the Spirit is "God's active force".
New World Translation Genesis 1
1 In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God’s active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters.
Now check 12 verse 2 in 12 other bibles.
http://bible.cc/genesis/1-2.htm
None have the words "active" or "force" but all have the words "God" and "Spirit".
Check the Hebrew for the word Spirit and it is "wind" or "breath".
http://strongsnumbers.com/hebrew/7307.htm
This is in accord with the account of the Holy Spirit coming at Pentecost, even in the NWT.
NWT Acts 2:1-47
1 Now while the day of the [festival of] Pentecost was in progress they were all together at the same place, 2 and suddenly there occurred from heaven a noise just like that of a rushing stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house in which they were sitting
Seeing as the NWT has no other references to 'active force' when talking about the Spirit Of God, and we have seen that the NWT Gen 1:2 is a bogus translation then we should forget all about an 'active force'.
So on with the Truth, not 'the truth'!
Next reference in the bible to God's Spirit.
Genesis 41:38 NIV
So Pharaoh asked them, "Can we find anyone like this man, one in whom is the spirit of God ?"
See who they are talking about? Joseph. One of Joseph's gifts was prophetic dreams from God and the ability to interpret dreams, see here it is confirmed.
Numbers 12:6 NIV
he said, "Listen to my words: "When a prophet of the LORD is among you, I reveal myself to him in visions, I speak to him in dreams.
Now back to Acts.
Acts 2:16-18 (New International Version)
16No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17" 'In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
So for ALL of God's servants, ALL of His people He will send His Spirit in the last days (after Christ returned to heaven).
No mention of this only being for the 144 000 or Peter wouldn't have been saying this to the believers there. The Spirit is for the 144 000 is another WT falsehood. OK to debunk another.
John 3:34 (New International Version)
For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.
John 7:39 (New International Version)
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.
Acts 11:15 (New International Version)
"As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
John 14:16-18 (New International Version)
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[a] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
So it is quite clear that the Spirit is a He and a person (whom).
What happens when believers are baptized in the Spirit.
Acts 19:6 (New International Version)
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
More here
1 Corinthians 12 (New International Version)
Spiritual Gifts
1 Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b] 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
So do the JWs display any of these gifts of the Spirit? No, of course not, they have not and cannot receive Him.
Another important thing about the Spirit.
Romans 8:1-2 (New International Version)
Life Through the Spirit
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
So no wonder JWs are dead in their law keeping efforts. Also they are slaves to fear, see below.
Romans 8:15 (New International Version)
For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."
Galatians 4:6 (New International Version)
Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."
As I pointed out in another post recently, in the last two verses it is clear that the Spirit of God is the same as the Spirit of the Son. Therefore, the Son is God. Quite clearly the Trinity once more.
Anyhow, sorry for the long post ;) Even now this is only skimming the surface of the huge topic of the Holy Spirit but I hope it is helpful.
All the best,
Stephen
The Holy Spirit-"God's Active Force"?!
by Chalam 4 Replies latest jw friends
-
Chalam
-
OBVES
The issue of the Holy Spirit is a wonderful example how people twist the Bible verses.
They don't realize that God Yahweh requires of us a simple common sense when we face God's words in the Bible.
We do many things in the name of love . Better expression is : we do many things in the spirit of love.
In this simple sentence we can already sense what the word "spirit " can mean.
If one is a True Christian he is living in the spirit of holiness. If we get the Spirit of God we get the spirit of living the way God Yahweh wants us to live : we got the Holy Spirit of God .
God's power that created and sustains the universe is the active power of God - it is not the Holy Spirit. As God Yahweh penetrates or fills up all things that exist and I know an atheist doesn't have the Spirit of God.
The Holy Spirit is not the Third person of the Trinity and is not the active force of God either !
Now , when we live in the end-time era that is closing in we are coming to the better understanding of the Bible and you should look for the new light on the Bible ,not by going to the old ideas people have on the Bible.
Read my posts to find out when this new era of understanding the Bible began. You can put aside many publications by the Watchtwer from earlier days as they became obsolete.
They served their time and they should and they were the best in that time. That is why the International Bible Students remain as the True Christian group that was the best in the right time and they served well back then and a part of the end-time True Christianity even though my views are so different than theirs .
We go forward in our search for the Truth.
Nowhere in the Bible it is said: 1/3 of God the Father ,1/3 of God the Son and 1/3 of God the Holy Spirit .Then we could say there is one God in three persons .
Jesus said : My God and your God , my Father and your Father- John 20.17
Yahweh who is the Father is the only true God - John 17.3 .It is so simple and clear .
Isaiah 48.16: " and now the Lord God and His Spirit hath sent me "
God Yahweh is not the Spirit as we can see from this verse.
God is the Spirit - John 4.24 and the Word was God - John 1.1 must be interpreted in the light of other related statements in the Bible. God Yahweh is not the Spirit literally just as Jesus is not God literally !
God must be the Spirit figuratively just as Jesus is God figuratively speaking.
Moses was called God and yet he was not God literally ! But at the same time he was not a false god as God Yahweh made him God- Exodus 7.1.
In saying the International Bible Students were the True Christianity I am not saying they were without mistakes in their doctrines but that they were the best in that time .
I have so many different views on the Bible and yet I am sympathizing with Jehovah's Witnesses, regarding them as the best religious organization on our planet earth. Why ? Because they still surpass other religious groups by making less mistakes .
What car you would like to use ? The one with more faults or the one with less faults ?
Jehovah's Witnesses don't fully understand what is the Holy Ghost who is the Holy Spirit but they are better in explanation of the Holy Spirit than many other religions.
-
moshe
Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost, Jehoobah, Lord Jesus- why debate about what it all means , if none of them can stop this from happening again - and it will. That will be the real "end times" for all mankind.
-
worldtraveller
Moshe is right. Whatever will happen will be a natural occurence-an event that we certainly will have little or no control of. So why worry about it.
It's that fear equals control crap again. What kind of life would it be if all you had was fear. Utter nonsense.
-
wildfell
So it is quite clear that the Spirit is a He and a person (whom).
Re the statement above. There is another explanation about why the spirit is referred to as a 'He'. (Please see the first link below to read the full article).At John 16:7 Jesus said: “It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor [or “Helper, “Comforter”] will not come to you, but if I go, I will send him to you.” In the various references to the holy Spirit as a “helper” or “comforter” and in most translations the pronouns “he” and “him” are used in the gospel account But the Greek term for “helper” or “comforter” (paraclete) is in the masculine gender and any reference to it by a pronoun has to be in the masculine gender. (Just as in Spanish where, for example, pencil (lapiz) is masculine and always takes the masculine pronoun él, even as “table” (mesa) is feminine and takes the feminine pronoun ella.) By contrast, the Greek term for “spirit” (pneuma) is neuter and always takes a neuter pronoun, even when reference is to the holy Spirit.
and
And it is clear that that style of speaking, of personifying, was as true in the time of the writing of the Christian Scriptures as it was in the time of the writing of the Hebrew Scriptures. Thus we read at Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:35 that “wisdom is vindicated by her deeds,” is “vindicated by all her children,” essentially the same type of language as found in Proverbs. Trinitarians make much of texts of the holy Spirit speaking and seem to ignore that, not only the Spirit, but blood and water are spoken of as testifying and agreeing together. (1 John 5:6, 7) At Romans 10:6 it states that “the righteousness that comes from faith says,” and righteousness is not a person. That is why even the Catholic Dictionary says of the texts so often referred to as demonstrating the personality of the holy Spirit:
Most of these places furnish no cogent proof of personality.… We must not forget that the NT personifies mere attributes such as love (1 Cor. xiii:4), and sin (Rom. vii. 11), nay, even abstract and lifeless things, such as the law (Rom. iii.19), the water and the blood (1 Jn. v.8). Since the Scriptures themselves present no detailed definition, we cannot pretend to know precisely in such areas. It does seem evident that having God’s spirit means not merely having some invisible power energize one, but results from the extent to which one comes to be in harmony with Him, to think and to feel as He does about matters, to have His outlook and feel moved to act in harmony with His own motivation or whatever term can be used to describe the driving force behind His actions and the carrying out of His will. (Compare Paul’s expressions at 1 Corinthians 5:3, 4; and 2 Corinthians 11:4.) That “motivation” is primarily love, which moved God to give his Son on our behalf, and which is the first element of the “fruitage” of God’s Spirit as described at Galatians 5:22. It seems clear that it is not merely power or force that produces that fruitage of love, joy, patience and similar qualities. It is more the influence of what God is and of our coming to know and love him for what He is.
http://www.commentarypress.net/cpn-essays/English/DD56E706-65C1-4DDF-95E2-40E8FB1B7708.html
I researched the Greek in John 16:7 - the link below will show a comparison between the Greek and English, as well as give a word for word translation of the Greek.
