Belief in an afterlife, and the difference in JW and 'apostate' thinking.

by Awakened07 9 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Awakened07
    Awakened07

    -How powerful the thought of an afterlife is, if you can make people believe in it! What power would religions have over people if it weren't for the teachings of an afterlife?

    While reading Crisis of Conscience way back, it dawned on me that most of the things that separate 'apostate' thinking from JW thinking, and makes us appalled at some of the teachings, is simply that active JWs truly believe that following the organization's guidance will lead to an ever lasting afterlife.

    "You want me to dedicate my entire life to going to several weekly meetings, prepare for those meetings, conducting personal- and family studies, prepare for preaching, go out and preach, study with interested ones, go to conventions, prepare for talks, get only a brief education, get a low paying job, put my hobbies on hold... Well, I'm not sure. -What was that? -I'll make up for it in a perfect, everlasting afterlife? Wow, really!? Oh well sure - as long as I get another shot at life, why not? What - I can't have blood transfusions, and neither can my family? Well... I don't know then... What? Think about that afterlife? Yeah, you're right! What am I thinking!? What use is this life if what I do here prevents me from getting that perfect afterlife? Why would I jeopardize that by taking a blood transfusion? If worse comes to worst, I would see my loved ones 'on the other side' anyway. No biggie. So yeah - sign me up!"

    "What - my uncle Carl died, only thirty years old!? So young... Oh well - he'll be resurrected anyway. No biggie."

    "-His funeral memorial was mostly about the organization and not his life! Well, that's only fitting, seeing how the organization is what ensured his belief in an afterlife. We'll see him later anyway, so why not praise Jehovah and his org. at this time instead of Carl?"

    "So they changed their doctrine because of new light, so that now it's OK to receive organ transplants while for some time it was not. So what? Those who died because they were loyal to the current 'light' at the time will be resurrected and rewarded anyway. No biggie."

    It permeates everything. Anything non-believers can fling at a JW can bounce back with the reasoning of a perfect afterlife where everything will be OK.

    "You were molested by an elder, he's still an elder, and it was not reported to the authorities? Well, that's really sad, but God will heal all wounds later on, and none of what happens in this life will matter once we get to the next life."

    But Jehovah's Witnesses are not alone. All religions use the same ruse to some extent. Nowadays, few of them will ask you to do something that would potentially actually kill you, but many ask you to spend a lot of time, energy and money toward the faith, in order to be right with God and get that afterlife.

    It has to be the choice of the individual how they decide to live their life of course. People's time is their own to do what they want. But should we respect it or allow it to continue when people's lives are at stake?

    Now, religious people may interject here that if one does not believe in any afterlife, then one's eternal afterlife is at stake, and that that is even graver than if this current life is spent in a 'less than perfect' manner, or one dies prematurely.

    But I've said it here before, and I'll say it again; One thing we can be 100% sure of is that we're alive here and now. Religious people can say they know that they'll be granted an afterlife, but we'll only know once we're dead (or not know since we'll be dead, as the case may be). And then this life has already been spent.

    -If someone offers you an eternal afterlife in return for certain 'favors' or actions that seriously interfere with your current life, then you should ask for the same amount of certainty that you have about being alive currently; 100% certain evidence.

    In my opinion.

  • Sirona
    Sirona
    -If someone offers you an eternal afterlife in return for certain 'favors' or actions that seriously interfere with your current life, then you should ask for the same amount of certainty that you have about being alive currently; 100% certain evidence.

    I agree with you!

    This life is the most important thing!

    This is one of the reasons that I am pagan. As a pagan I see the physical world and physical life as being of paramount importance. I do believe in an afterlife, but it is certainly secondary to being safe / happy / healthy / giving / loving NOW.

    Sirona

  • Double Edge
    Double Edge

    I believe in an afterlife whether one's religous or not. However, like you, I think that living the "here and now"
    is the most important thing for us in this life. I've never been a dub, but when I use to discuss with my JW friend their belief in an afterlife, it never made sense to me. So the 144,000 have spirits and go to be with God after this life, but all other people have to be good JWs for them to be "remember" in God's mind and be restored to everlasting life? In other words, you're dead as a doornail unless you have enough service hours for God to remember you..... what's that? And why do the 144,000 have spirits and all others don't?

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    The idea is the same as any religion, "Keep your eye on the prize" God will reward you with everlasting life... I am a person who still believes in God although I have not taken a new faith after leaving J w's .

    Interestingly, this study says that religion has a positive benefit in one's life. and I am sure that is true, from what I have felt and observed in others.

  • Awakened07
    Awakened07

    Yes - I don't really mind anymore that people are religious, or rather, 'spiritual'. It's their life, and their experience. As long as it does not hinder educated thought, true scientific search for explanations of the natural world for the public, and the self realization and free expression for the individual, I don't have much against it.

    I'm not even going to argue against the notion that religion/spirituality can be good for people; actually I think it can. No wonder it has been so successful for tens of thousands of years.

    The important thing is that it does not harm or severely burden the individual, or try to hinder the research of the natural sciences, or influence politics. Unfortunately, many religions and/or their various sects do just that.

    My main point here was not to attack believers in general, but to point to what it is that makes JWs rationalize some rather appalling beliefs and practices.

  • Gill
    Gill

    Bluesbrother - I'm sure that RELIGION can have a positive effect on people's lives but I don't think that CULTS have a positive effect. I think we can bear that out by the experiences of many JWs on this board.

    However, those who go onto another RELIGION seem happier once they have let go of the controls and pain that having been in a CULT can scar a person with.

    Then, going back to the beginning of the thread, what if we never really die anyway? What if rebirth and reincarnation are ipso facto?

    Studies in Quantum physics suggest that 'we' may be nothing less than sheer energy trapped in a 'bottle' ie our bodies and we simply move onto another 'bottle' once our body 'breaks'. Quantum physics is opening up new light on the paradox of the possibilities that death extends to the 'spirit' that leaves a dead body.

    That would mean we owe no religion or religious belief anything. It may also mean that reincarnation as a lesser or greater being, the next time round, if Karma is infact a scientific fact, means that what goes around comes around is more than just a saying.

    JWs fear of DEATH, means that they live a neutral life, in that they potentially achieve nothing and neither do they potentially do anything negative. In effect, fear of death, stops a JW from ever living and reaching their full potential.

    An apostate, may well learn that there really is 'more to life' than anything taught in a Kingdom Hell!

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts
    If someone offers you an eternal afterlife in return for certain 'favors' or actions that seriously interfere with your current life, then you should ask for the same amount of certainty that you have about being alive currently; 100% certain evidence.

    I think that is the key. Belief in an afterlife brings meaning to peoples lives, so seems to be a good thing. The damage comes with religion insisting on certain sets of damaging behaviour that is required to please God, in order to be worthy of everlasting life. The Watchtower Society has damaging rules, but by no means are they the only one. Think war, female circumcision, child sacrifice etc, etc, in fact many of histories worst attrocities.

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    You make some really insightful observations. That really sums up the whole JW thing in a nutshell, doesn't it?

    You become convinced that as long as you do what they say you will get eternal life.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    I believe in an unconditional afterlife, ie, you get it, whether you believe in it, or not. No god(s), orgs, priests, elders, etc can regulate it. It;s a democracy over there. Even bad deeds don't affect it. I guess i don't believe in karma, iether. That means that i can live as i want, the belief has very little affect on my actions.

    The belief that god(s) or orgs somehow control the process is just another hyjack of our autonomy, which controlers love to do, as they attempt to do in all other fields - econmomics, politics, political correctness, globle worming scare, etc. Time to drop the group think, and become true individuals, yet part of the greater whole.

    S

  • VoidEater
    VoidEater

    Imagine the double carrot CTR offered - eternal life and no Hell...

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