JW says.... "Listen I'm 19 and in college so everyday I experience new things, people, and religions and I would never down a persons religion because to me that's being close-minded you have to accept people and live by the Bible. In school we have to take Religion and Psychology classes and I don't know if you realize it or not but in the original Dead Sea scrolls the Isrealites called God, Yahweh which in English is translated to Jehovah!!! Later when King James version was written they took out the name Jehovah and replaced it with God or Lord. When you read the Watchtower and they speak on "empire of false religion" they are speaking on people that worship false gods and idols,and pratice witch craft and sorcery (Jeremiah 27:9). But when I told you earlier that "If you did read the Bible you would know the Bible is nothing to argue about" Jehovah witnesses are trying to educate and inform the public about the "glory of Jehovah" and God wants his people to go out and preach his good news (Matthew 10:27, Luke 8:1).The JW's have the Elders although you referred to them as the Governing Body, basically they preachand teach; and we can go to them if we have issues, concerns or personal things that's going on in our lives and they help us out. Many people make generalization or stereotype JW's because they are not educated about the organization. I use to hear a lot of things about the Mormons, but since I have spent time with them I relaized people were making up things about their congregation because of what they heard and not what they actually observed. Jehovah witnesses are not harsh to people they are just more stict with the Bible and try to follow the fruitage of the spirit (Galatians 5:22)It feels as though you think that out of all the religious organizations in the world JEHOVAH WITNESSES is the only one that have rape cases. If that JW congregation knowingly harbored pedophiles in their mists then you are correct that is a shame and they were not real followers of Jehovah God and they were just hypocrites!!! But how many times have I told you, you cannot judge (Romans 4:4) people just because of the conduct of a few!!! But I truly believe that "there is no faith or religion better than the other you just have to live your life right and try to do right by God" I don't think that God is going to say well um let me just pick all people that are Baptist or some other organization to be the only ones to experience "everlasting life". Jehovah is going to judge you by how you lived your life and your faith in Him". My reply "Miss Spencer, you seem to be a great person and I think you’re on the right path to become a great leader. But I’m not talking about you as a person here, I discussing what I know about the JWs and how they’ve handled this child abuse issue. As you go along, you’ll find that a person with great leadership abilities doesn’t have to accept things that hurt others. I live in the South, and there’s a bridge nearby here where 7 people were viciously hanged for almost no reason at all; should I just accept this as part of my Southern heritage, or should I find such things repulsive? What should I have done if I were there in 1945, just accept this as the way it is? I know from reading what you’ve written that you wouldn’t want this as you have shown me that you have compassion for these children. I know who the Elders are, I also know about your organizational structures which start with the ones that run it and are called the Governing Body; subsequently your religion has a group called the “faithful and discreet slave”… which is comprised of all anointed members but is controlled by the Governing Body…these men handed down the dictates in question, and these policies protected molesters, thus the reason they had to settle a huge lawsuit. You, as a JW, have no right to go against what the GB says if you do and refuse to accept them as being God’s spirit guided “organization” you’ll be kicked out and subsequently shunned (disfellowshipped). That’s not found anywhere in the Bible, but these policies kept many victims from telling on molesters… that’s wrong, I don’t need to accept any religion that has done such things… Period! I do not accept practices that protect molesters in any religions, so there’s no need to keep bringing up what other religions have done, you started out defending the JW faith, that’s why we’re having this conversation. As far as the name Jehovah goes… that isn’t God’s name; Even your own religion recognizes that no one knows for a fact the name of God… if you can show me one Bible scholar, that will say that God’s name is Jehovah, I’ll be very surprised. When you assert that JWs are trying to educate about Jehovah, many of my family are JW’s, they are very far from tolerant of other religions and their goals in the ministry is to convert. I’m not speaking in ignorance of this organization here, I know all about the JWs, the mansions built for returning “worthies” the false predictions about Armageddon, the changes on blood doctrine; people have needlessly lost their lives serving this organization… I know people in the late stages of their lives (80 years old and older) whose families won’t talk to them because they no longer believe what the so called “faithful and discreet slave” has to say… I asked what scriptural basis the JWs have for this policy in my last e-mail to you. I would appreciate your answer. I wasn’t judging this faith on the conduct of a few; I know how their policies hurt others first hand. This religion isn’t benign, it wrecks families apart, and the reason the families are torn is because the intolerance the JWs have to any thoughts outside what the GB/faithful slave says. Yet you say the JWs aren’t “harsh”, 80 year old ladies that I know can’t touch or even talk to their own grandkids because of this religion, these people weren’t adulterers, nor greedy persons, nor anything that Paul mentions in Corinthians, their crime was not agreeing with the policies as dictated by the faithful slave. This isn’t harsh to you? So, I’m glad you’re going to college, college is a great thing. You called me ignorant in one of your e-mails…I am ignorant of many things but not about the JW religion. I also have a BS from the University of Georgia, and I have completed some grad work; I was recently accepted to law school but can’t decide if I should attend. From the e-mails you’ve sent I can see that you must be new in this religion…. Is that true? If so, I think it’d be a great idea if you research your religion further, I have known many JWs who were shocked when they found out all the Faithful slave has withheld from them; many I know took a stand against this religion when they discovered its dark secrets". Georgiadawg.
The sage witht he JW continues
by dawg 6 Replies latest jw friends
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dawg
here it is again the right way...
Listen I'm 19 and in college so everyday I experience new things, people, and religions and I would never down a persons religion because to me that's being close-minded you have to accept people and live by the Bible. In school we have to take Religion and Psychology classes and I don't know if you realize it or not but in the original Dead Sea scrolls the Isrealites called God, Yahweh which in English is translated to Jehovah!!! Later when King James version was written they took out the name Jehovah and replaced it with God or Lord. When you read the Watchtower and they speak on "empire of false religion" they are speaking on people that worship false gods and idols,and pratice witch craft and sorcery (Jeremiah 27:9). But when I told you earlier that "If you did read the Bible you would know the Bible is nothing to argue about" Jehovah witnesses are trying to educate and inform the public about the "glory of Jehovah" and God wants his people to go out and preach his good news (Matthew 10:27, Luke 8:1).The JW's have the Elders although you referred to them as the Governing Body, basically they preachand teach; and we can go to them if we have issues, concerns or personal things that's going on in our lives and they help us out. Many people make generalization or stereotype JW's because they are not educated about the organization. I use to hear a lot of things about the Mormons, but since I have spent time with them I relaized people were making up things about their congregation because of what they heard and not what they actually observed. Jehovah witnesses are not harsh to people they are just more stict with the Bible and try to follow the fruitage of the spirit (Galatians 5:22)It feels as though you think that out of all the religious organizations in the world JEHOVAH WITNESSES is the only one that have rape cases. If that JW congregation knowingly harbored pedophiles in their mists then you are correct that is a shame and they were not real followers of Jehovah God and they were just hypocrites!!! But how many times have I told you, you cannot judge (Romans 4:4) people just because of the conduct of a few!!! But I truly believe that "there is no faith or religion better than the other you just have to live your life right and try to do right by God" I don't think that God is going to say well um let me just pick all people that are Baptist or some other organization to be the only ones to experience "everlasting life". Jehovah is going to judge you by how you lived your life and your faith in Him.
-Miss Spencer
Miss Spencer, you seem to be a great person and I think you’re on the right path to become a great leader. But I’m not talking about you as a person here, I discussing what I know about the JWs and how they’ve handled this child abuse issue. As you go along, you’ll find that a person with great leadership abilities doesn’t have to accept things that hurt others. I live in the South, and there’s a bridge nearby here where 7 people were viciously hanged for almost no reason at all; should I just accept this as part of my Southern heritage, or should I find such things repulsive? What should I have done if I were there in 1945, just accept this as the way it is? I know from reading what you’ve written that you wouldn’t want this as you have shown me that you have compassion for these children. I know who the Elders are, I also know about your organizational structures which start with the ones that run it and are called the Governing Body; subsequently your religion has a group called the “faithful and discreet slave”… which is comprised of all anointed members but is controlled by the Governing Body…these men handed down the dictates in question, and these policies protected molesters, thus the reason they had to settle a huge lawsuit. You, as a JW, have no right to go against what the GB says if you do and refuse to accept them as being God’s spirit guided “organization” you’ll be kicked out and subsequently shunned (disfellowshipped). That’s not found anywhere in the Bible, but these policies kept many victims from telling on molesters… that’s wrong, I don’t need to accept any religion that has done such things… Period! I do not accept practices that protect molesters in any religions, so there’s no need to keep bringing up what other religions have done, you started out defending the JW faith, that’s why we’re having this conversation.
As far as the name Jehovah goes… that isn’t God’s name; Even your own religion recognizes that no one knows for a fact the name of God… if you can show me one Bible scholar, that will say that God’s name is Jehovah, I’ll be very surprised. When you assert that JWs are trying to educate about Jehovah, many of my family are JW’s, they are very far from tolerant of other religions and their goals in the ministry is to convert. I’m not speaking in ignorance of this organization here, I know all about the JWs, the mansions built for returning “worthies” the false predictions about Armageddon, the changes on blood doctrine; people have needlessly lost their lives serving this organization… I know people in the late stages of their lives (80 years old and older) whose families won’t talk to them because they no longer believe what the so called “faithful and discreet slave” has to say… I asked what scriptural basis the JWs have for this policy in my last e-mail to you. I would appreciate your answer. I wasn’t judging this faith on the conduct of a few; I know how their policies hurt others first hand. This religion isn’t benign, it wrecks families apart, and the reason the families are torn is because the intolerance the JWs have to any thoughts outside what the GB/faithful slave says. Yet you say the JWs aren’t “harsh”, 80 year old ladies that I know can’t touch or even talk to their own grandkids because of this religion, these people weren’t adulterers, nor greedy persons, nor anything that Paul mentions in Corinthians, their crime was not agreeing with the policies as dictated by the faithful slave. This isn’t harsh to you?
So, I’m glad you’re going to college, college is a great thing. You called me ignorant in one of your e-mails…I am ignorant of many things but not about the JW religion. I also have a BS from the University of Georgia, and I have completed some grad work; I was recently accepted to law school but can’t decide if I should attend. From the e-mails you’ve sent I can see that you must be new in this religion…. Is that true? If so, I think it’d be a great idea if you research your religion further, I have known many JWs who were shocked when they found out all the Faithful slave has withheld from them; many I know took a stand against this religion when they discovered its dark secrets. Georgiadawg. -
keyser soze
But I truly believe that "there is no faith or religion better than the other you just have to live your life right and try to do right by God" I don't think that God is going to say well um let me just pick all people that are Baptist or some other organization to be the only ones to experience "everlasting life". Jehovah is going to judge you by how you lived your life and your faith in Him.
A great sentiment, but not at all what JWs believe about themselves.
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Galileo
Seems like you're handling this the right way. She must be very new if she's referring to them as "Jehovah Witnesses". Perhaps if you respond to her again you could point her in the right direction. Give her some links, jwfacts.com perhaps.
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Homerovah the Almighty
Well said Dawg, particularly the last part when you stated when a person does some serious investigation on this religion
most will quickly turn the other direction.........good job
PS. Have you ever tried I.E. spell corrector here's a link http://www.iespell.com/download.php
Oh and it does work with Vista, I'm using it now
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Tuesday
This may be somewhat of a lost cause there Dawg. I would send a correction in your e-mail, YHWY is the name for God, but it isn't translated Jehovah. That's the misnomer because the first four letters along with YHWY was put together as "Jehovah". In actuality the first four letters were put infront of YHWY to remind people to use those letters instead of God's actual name since it was disrespectful to use his actual name.
You might be painting too broad of a stroke in these e-mails Dawg. Because you're hitting on so many of the beliefs at once she's just claming up and defending all of them somewhat doggedly. You might want to point out that while the Catholics were guilty of pedofile priests and did move priests to other parishes when an accusation came up it's the policies of the JW's you're disagreeing with. Even back int he 60's when these Catholic cases came up they didn't wait for a second witness to the child's molestation to come forward before they moved the priest, they could realize that there probably wasn't a second witness to molestation. JW's on the other hand do have the two witness rule, and while the two witness rule is scriptural in basis it's probably not the best scripture to apply when it comes to a sensitive matter like this. I would probably say something to the effect "while I applaud JW's for trying to apply scripture in every aspect of their religion (though sometimes incorrectly) in the case of molestation you simply cannot abide by a four thousand year old rule." Specifically attack this procedure, ask "How many molestation cases have you heard of where a child is molested in front of another witness?" Also bring up the confidentiality clause, I would say something to the effect "Miss Spencer, do you realize that what happens in Judicial Meetings are kept confidential? While this is fantastic for someone who has been accused of smoking, if someone is accused of molestation and it is kept secret it puts other children at risk. When someone is disfellowshipped it is not revealed for what reason, when they are re-instated the original reason for the disfellowshipping is not revealed either. You could've just re-instated a child molester, who after some time will be considered a brother in good standing, and you wouldn't even be warned about letting them baby sit your child. Would you even check into the background of a brother in good standing about to babysit your child, or would you assume since he is a brother in good standing he already is more than qualified?"
You're bringing up many great points, but I notice if you attack many beliefs then witnesses will not respond to specific questions. If you focus to this one sexual abuse issue she will be forced to come to a conclusion. You can bring up that if a child is molested by a priest the catholic parent is not encouraged to go to other priests to talk about it, they're encouraged to go to the police. If a child was/is molested by a priest the internal investigation for the catholic church does not require a second witness. Also bring up the sheer numbers, there are hundreds of millions of catholics and the numbers of molesters in the catholic priesthood is around the same figure as the 23,000 listed as JW molesters, and JW's numbers WORLD WIDE are only 6 million. Since Myspace is all the rage now talking about on stage at assemblies and so forth I would probably bring up that there are less than 100 cases of aggrivated stalking, abduction or sexual misconduct occuring due to Myspace which has a membership of more than 6 million. If you take that figure, that means that strictly by numbers you are safer having a myspace account than stepping into a Kingdom Hall. You have more of a chance of being raped by a Jehovah's Witness than you do being sexually propositioned on Myspace. And look at the second possibility, that's just propositioned, never mind raped.
You are doing a fantastic job in that you aren't missing any beats, but if you want her to actually answer a question instead of doggedly dodge every single one just claiming that Witnesses try their best and every orginization has their problems (which you can quote the scripture where Jesus used the phrase "one bad apple spoils the whole bunch"), I would focus on one issue. Try to get her to explain why this "two witness" approach is scriptural and how she feels safer knowing this is in effect, also try to get her to condone the silence on the end of disfellowshipping and that a child could end up in the care of a former molester without the knowlege of the parent.
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dawg
Tuesday, I'll try and stay on one topic if she replies.