Gopher, I am glad you brought up this scripture in Luke. Luke 14:26: If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own soul, he cannot be my disciple. This is NOT what Jesus said. This scripture has been very much "doctored" by the Nephilim temple servants. This is BLASPHEMY. This is why the nephilim and their ilk must be destroyed. They have perverted the words Jesus came to give us. These are the ones meant for destruction at Armageddon. Not you. The destruction is not meant for innocent people; it is meant for the truly evil, the blasphemers, and the nephilim lineage still present today. What Jesus actually said was "if anyone comes to me and yet hates (mother, father, brother, wife, etc) then he cannot be my disciple." NEVER EVER did Jesus advocate hating anyone! Jesus said: Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use you; that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven." Do you see a discrepancy here? Do you think it would be characteristic of Jesus to blatantly go against one of the ten commandments which says to "honor thy father and mother"? Do you think it would be characteristic of Jesus to preach both love and hate out of the same mouth? If Jesus had any room in his heart for hate, would his last words at the hands of gruesome torture, have been "father forgive them, for they don't realize what they are doing"?? and again, with emphasis: Luke 14:26: If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own soul, he cannot be my disciple. Now, how does that compare with this: 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ [ d ] 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ [ e ] 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Now, if you are to "hate your own soul" how could it be possible to love your neighbor as you love yourself? Luke 14:26 is a blasphemous, purposely mis-translated lie! Jesus did not make duplicitous statements like this. Luke 6:27-36 [27] "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, [28] bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. [29] If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. [30] Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. [31] Do to others as you would have them do to you. [32] "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. [33] And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. [34] And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. [35] But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. [36] Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Does this sound like a man who would ever advise hatred toward mother, father, sister, brother, husband, wife? Luke 14:27 Whoever is not carrying his torture stake and coming after me cannot be my disciple. BLASPHEMY! Jesus did not say this. This is what he said: Matthew 11: 28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Are you beginning to see that these scripture comparisons do not add up? Have you ever known someone so well that if they were accused of something you would know without a doubt they were incapable of such a thing? You can know this only if you have a personal relationship with Jesus and have guidance from the Holy Spirit. and again: Luke 14:27 Whoever is not carrying his torture stake and coming after me cannot be my disciple. Would it make any sense that Jesus would use this illustration of what would be his death...and use it in such a threatening way....as a condition of acceptance? Would he use this imagery in such a light, blase, off-hand manner? Did he ever "carry-on" about how he would die by torture and was sacrificing for everyone? (In the Garden of Gethsemane) Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. Even hateful people have been known to say this (pain, disease, misfortune) is so horrible I would not wish it on my worst enemy. With that in mind, can you imagine Jesus wishing, no...requiring that his followers experience horrors and torture? Now, does this sound like something Jesus would say... "Whoever is not carrying his torture stake and coming after me cannot be my disciple." Is this something he would wish on others? Or demand of others? That entire length of verse Luke 14:26-33 is totally out of character for Jesus. I would like to emphasize one more verse. Luke 14: 33 Thus, you may be sure, none of you that does not say good-bye to all his belongings can be my disciple. Once again, Jesus never said this. This is an arrogant, self righteous "you have to play by my rules" statement. Jesus did not speak like this. He did not make outright demands and conditions on people. Often, he gave an illustration and always, he made people think about having a choice of actions. Jesus gave comfort and kindness, not ultimatums. This statement is not within the character of Jesus. This scripture sounds like something a spoiled brat kid would say..."I've got the tinker toys, I can make all the rules. If you want to play at my house you have to do everything I say." Compare that last scripture with this. Matthew 13: 45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: 46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it. The "pearl of great price" is TRUTH. Jesus always gave food for thought and always made it clear that your life is your own and you always have options. But, to seek the truth will always be costly because it bucks the system. And to SPEAK the truth, you will risk your life. This is why Jesus was murdered. The religious hierarchy hated him because he showed them up for the liars they were. He never kow-towed to their rules and dictates. They did not like having the truth about themselves exposed. It jeopardized their power structure and finances. Can you see a hidden agenda here? Luke 14: 33 Thus, you may be sure, none of you that does not say good-bye to all his belongings can be my disciple. This verse was added for a reason. It was so the temple "religions" could co-erce more money out of their flock. "Give it up if you want to follow Jesus." And believers would oblige, because, after all, it was written in the holy book. Many generations have passed without "seeing" the translation additions and changes. Few had the guts to ever question these "authorities" calling themselves preachers. SIlence in the church! The church arrangement is fixed in a way that people really have no chance to ask questions or have discussions. They are always being "talked down to" from a pedestal. Only by having a personal relationship with Jesus, can one learn more deeply about the character of Jesus and his mission. Without the personal interaction of prayer, there is only the dictates and traditions of man. Even the few preserved words of Jesus have been bastardized by the nephilim temple slaves. Gopher, you profess to be an atheist. That voice comes from your anger and your frustration. You wish you could give up. But you can't. You are still searching for the truth and hiding behind that label. You are very tender hearted and a man with a strong conscience. You are very supportive of your friends and even strangers who need a kind word, you give it. You have a lot of empathy for people. You are a very sensitive, kind soul. There is so much you have not understood in your search for truth because you haven't let go of the wrong misleading teachings of the Watchtower. Some of those false teachings are so ingrained in your thoughts. Gopher, what is missing is that you do not have a personal relationship with Jesus. Simply talk to him like an invisible friend. Just talk. No groveling required. Just address him as your mentor and friend. Ask him to show you the answers to your questions. God created man because he was lonely. And now we must depend on Jesus, our intercessor, because God is too far removed from us at this point in our development. Everyone has the right and the opportunity to speak to Jesus, not just some elite buffoons in the GB who claim the privilege. And believe me Gopher, he will listen and you will come to recognize when he answers. "The prayers of a righteous man availeth much." PS. I do not know you personally. I speak as the spirit leads.
Gopher's scripture is a Nephilim rendering
by winnower 8 Replies latest watchtower bible
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winnower
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Open mind
Simply talk to him like an invisible friend.
Okey-dokey.
om
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logic&reason
"Simply talk to him like an invisible friend."
Like Harvey?
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BurnTheShips
The Nephilim tell me your post is full of fail!
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Gopher
So these contradictions in meaning/spirit found in the Bible must prove one of the following:
(1) God wrote the Bible, but was unable to prevent alterations
(2) The gross inconsistencies in the Bible mean that "God" had nothing to do with the Bible, but that it is the word of men
or (3) God really meant to write inconsistencies in the Bible to test people (to see if they'd follow the hateful or loving course).
I think #2 is true.
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winnower
Gopher,
It is great effort for me to get to a computer. It has a pre-set 30 minute timer. I will answer you next time.
W
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Meeting Junkie No More
Winnower:
I found your post very intriguing...I would love nothing more than to believe that the information you present is correct and that Luke 14:26 (among a myriad of other scriptures) has somehow been 'tampered with'.
But I must ask, on what do you base your assertions? I would love to hear any evidence you can produce, if there is in fact any such. I also must ask what a Nephilim rendering is, and who exactly the 'Nephilim' are supposed to be. Thanks for any answers...hopefully you will have access to a computer in the near future.
Thanks.
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winnower
From Gopher: So these contradictions in meaning/spirit found in the Bible must prove one of the following: (1) God wrote the Bible, but was unable to prevent alterations (2) The gross inconsistencies in the Bible mean that "God" had nothing to do with the Bible, but that it is the word of men or (3) God really meant to write inconsistencies in the Bible to test people (to see if they'd follow the hateful or loving course).
I think #2 is true. Gopher, you are somewhat correct. It seems to me that the Old Testament chronicles man's effort to explain his existence and chronicles his efforts to reach his Creator. I do believe that some indeed found a Divine Guidance and certain intellect reflects that, especially when I read Proverbs. There is a very interesting post here http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/159132/1.ashx. It's short. Here's a brief excerpt: At the time we were studying the Psalms and used a book called "Psalms For All Seasons" by John F. Craghan (1993 Liturgical Press) as a resource. Imagine my shock when we read the author's comments about Psalm 19, that it was "originally a pagan hymn honoring the Semitic god El...In its Israelite form the hymn naturally praises the God of Israel." Or his comments on Psalm 29 as follows, "Scholars generally agree that this Psalm was originally a pagan composition extolling the Canaanite god Baal, the weather god who through storms and rains brings fertility to the earth...The heavenly beings in verse 1 were originally the minor gods of the Canaanite pantheon. In appropriating this hymn for her worship, Israel substituted the name of her god Yahweh (translated "the Lord") for that of Baal." I firmly believe much has been "tampered with" in the scriptures. I see a lot of mythology in Genesis. I am not a bible scholar and I cannot discuss those things on an academic level. I only know that the Holy Spirit gives discernment and I believe that comes through intellect (study, reading, thirst for knowledge) intuition (indwelling of Holy Spirit) prayer (acknowledgment of a True Creator who tried to communicate with us through His son). There are some true guiding words in the scriptures, but alas the weeds have grown in among the wheat. When I read scriptures like you presented, Gopher, I just cringe. I know there is too much opposing information about the personality and mission of Jesus. And I know in my heart and my intellect that the scripture you presented does not fit. That's why I took it line by line and showed you with opposing scripture that it cannot be true. I don't know who this 'Jehovah' god is, but it is certainly not the True Creator. If the True Creator has a name, I do not know it. Maybe he does and it has been hidden from us. Maybe its just not that important for now. Maybe we are just supposed to concentrate on his Messenger Son. I think importance of the name is just a big distraction of watchtower to keep people in confusion and not focus on the real message from his son who was sent here in the flesh. Jesus was run out of the Temples and often run out of town. Why? He was exposing some things that were corrupt teachings even then. When he was crucified, it was the Temple soldiers who came for him. He was exposing some of the lies that are probably still being told today. I have a sense of much being amiss in both the old and new testaments. The guilt motive to control people has existed even before the time of Jesus. It's scriptural: Hosea 4: 8 Since the priests live off the sin offerings of the people, they want the people to sin more and more.
9 The priests are as wrong as the people, and I will punish them both for what they have done. I will repay them for the wrong they have done. The phrase "Jesus died for our sins" is something concocted by the religions to beat us over the head with guilt. Jesus came to live to show us how to "have life more abundantly." He was murdered because he was a whistle-blower. He exposed the "religions" for their hypocrisies. Here is another topic of interest and conflict. Cain was a tiller of the soil. Baal was the god of agriculture. The Caanities worshiped baal. Seems to me that's the origin of the world "cannibal". Were they cannibals because of low intellect or lack of feelings for one another? Or were they cannibals as part of a worship ritual to satan? I believe satan is a real entity; he is a fallen angel. Could Cain have been the offspring of Eve and Satan? Was that "the fruit"? Did Eve shake the peaches on Satan's tree? Could the "mark of Cain" be blood sacrifice ritual? I have just as many questions as you do. Look at genesis 5:1. "This is the book of the generations of Adam." Then, it never mentions Cain at all! Genesis 5:3:...."begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:" It never says Cain was in Adam's image and nor any mention as belonging to Adam's lineage. This is also upheld at Luke 3:38. Go figure! I do not believe the True Creator would ask Abraham to kill his son. That just does not ring true to me about a loving God. I think Abraham was serving Baal at that time. Perhaps he felt a communication with the True Creator at the time his son was spared and that changed him. The True Creator did not send his "only begotton son" for the exclusive purpose of dying a tortuous death. He sent his son to teach us how to live better lives. He gave us examples of what it means to love one another. Maybe people were too barbaric to know how to express that. Maybe love which should have been innate was suppressed by dictates of a harsh societal environment. I don't know. I can only wonder. In so many religions the focus seems to be on the death of Jesus rather than the life of the man. Just like the big ceremony of Memorial. There has always been something about that that creeps me out. And especially since the witnesses make a such an ordeal about "No blood" and making a scene asking grocery store butchers how the chickens were killed, etc. Why would they participate in a ceremony that even represents blood drinking? Are they vampires for one night only? Gopher, I think there is actually something sinister behind that ritual. I think of Revelation 17:6 : Then I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God's holy people and with the blood of those who were killed because of their faith in Jesus. When I saw the woman, I was very amazed. I think the "amazement" will be when people realize that the "woman" is the religions of the world. And those who drink the blood are those who are worshiping the god of this world---Satan. In the WT congregation, they are told that they must be "Worthy." They would have you think that 'worthy' means living close to perfection. But by definition, worthy means "deserving". Now read it in that context. Revelation 16:4 They poured out the blood of saints and prophets so you've given them blood to drink— they've gotten what they deserve! The drinking of blood and using that ritual identify satan's minions. Who are they? They will come about through the "religious element" in the last days. Many of these people who are participating in religious worship will not realize that they have been giving homage to Satan until the very end. And I mean every religion is satan's domain. There is no "true" religion. There is only "truth in spirit". -
journey-on
firmly believe much has been "tampered with" in the scriptures.
If you know who the "scribes" really were who were first mentioned in Genesis, then follow their evolvment into
lawyers by the time of Jesus, you will get a pretty good idea why the scriptures have been tampered with.
