Evolution is a fact post - Biased view?

by Decidedly_Unsure 4 Replies latest jw friends

  • Decidedly_Unsure
    Decidedly_Unsure

    <p>The "Evolution is a fact" argument started by JanH seems to have found

    <br>overwhelming support. I have not read about many arguments for or against

    <br>evolution except for JW stuff so you will know my alreay biased view:-)

    <p> ;My understanding of his basic premise is that "common DNA" and

    "useless DNA"

    <br>should not result from an act of creation but evolution. Hence he asserts:

    <p><i>" as times goes by and evolution changes species considerably, this</i>

    <br><i>means a lot of junk accumulates in the DNA. In fact, most of the

    DNA we have</i>

    <br><i>in us -- and this is true about every other organism -- is useless

    junk code,</i>

    <br><i>so-called pseudocode. Some of it contains copies of code used elsewhere</i>

    <br><i>(reduplications). Lots of it is code that was used by some of our

    ancestors.</i>

    <br><i>And, when we see that we share these meaningless sequences with

    chimps and</i>

    <br><i>other species as well, it is direct evidence to the fact of evolution."</i>

    <p>(Would you agree that the above already indicates an evolutionist's

    bias in

    <br>the argument? Note the use of ancestors! )

    <br>and he concludes:

    <p><i>"No creationist should be allowed to repeat their silly assertions

    without</i>

    <br><i>being called to task to reply to this question: If we and other

    species were</i>

    <br><i>created directly, how come we have genes for tails, birds have genes

    for teeth</i>

    <br><i>and whales have genes for legs, genes that are sometimes actived

    today? In the</i>

    <br><i>creationist world, such a thing would be impossible. In the real

    world, one</i>

    <br><i>where all species is the result of evolution -- descent with modification

    --</i>

    <br><i>such throwbacks are both possible and exactly what we should expect.</i>

    <br><i>This is just one reason we know that evolution is a fact"</i>

    <p>Does this not presume to know by what means a creator would proceed

    to ; make

    <br>living things? ; From the point of view of the thing evolved or

    created

    <br>something embedded may be junk but how do we know that this would be

    so for a

    <br>creator?

    <p>Consider another posible viewpoint. It's interesting that JanH should

    menton

    <br>pseudocode. ; Perhaps he has been exposed to some programming languages. ;

    I

    <br>myself have basic familiarity with just one or two. ; Much of the

    foll. is

    <br>taken from a primer that has nothing to do with evolution/creation

    debate.

    <br>I just thought it would represent an alternative viewpoint that could

    refute

    <br>the argument mentioned by JanH.

    <br>The key is inheritance, please read through to the explanation of what

    that

    <br>is.

    <p>Please bear with me, I wish I could make this shorter:

    <br>======================================

    <br> ;In creating new applications a very common approach

    <br>taken by developers is object-oriented programming. This relatively

    modern

    <br>approach is considered to be far more efficient than earlier methods

    of

    <br>programming (i.e. creating :-)).

    <p>In this approach, code and data are embedded in

    <br>"black-box" objects derived from blueprints called "Classes".

    <p>How are objects defined? An object is defined via its class, which determines

    <br>everything about an object. Objects are individual instances of a class.

    For

    <br>example, you may create an object call Spot from class Dog. The Dog

    class

    <br>defines what it is to be a Dog object, and all the "dog-related" messages

    a

    <br>Dog object can act upon. All object-oriented languages have some means,

    <br>usually called a factory, to "manufacture" object instances from a

    class

    <br>definition. You can make more than one object of this class, and call

    <br>them Spot, Fido, Rover, etc. The Dog class defines messages that the

    Dog

    <br>objects understand, such as "bark", "fetch", and "roll-over".

    <p><b>INHERITANCE IS THE KEY--</b>

    <br><b><i>This is the key for someone with no bias toward evolution. ;

    Could it be that</i></b>

    <br><b><i>there is a creator who used an analog of inheritance? ; In

    fact if he were</i></b>

    <br><b><i>efficient, it would probably make far more sense for him to use

    this approach</i></b>

    <br><b><i>than any other!</i></b>

    <p>Inheritance: What is it?

    <br> ;If there is already a class which can respond to a bunch of

    <br>different messages, what if you wanted to make a new, similar class

    which adds

    <br>just a couple of more messages? Why have to re-write the entire class?

    <p>Of course, in any good object-oriented language, you don't. All you

    need to do

    <br>is create a subclass (or derived class, in C++ terminology) of the

    original

    <br>class. This new class inherits all the existing messages, and therefore,

    all

    <br>the behavior of the original class. The original class is called the

    parent

    <br>class, or superclass, of the new class. Some more jargon -- a subclass

    is said

    <br>to be a specialization of its superclass, and the conversely a superclass

    a

    <br>generalization of its subclasses.

    <p>Inheritance also promotes reuse. You don't have to start from scratch

    when you

    <br>write a new program. You can simply reuse an existing repertoire of

    classes

    <br>that have behaviors similar to what you need in the new program.

    <p>For example, after creating the class Dog, you might make a subclass

    called

    <br>Wolf, which defines some wolf-specific messages, such as hunt. Or it

    might

    <br>make more sense to define a common class called Canis, of which both

    Dog and

    <br>Wolf are subclasses.

    <p>Much of the art of o-o programming is determining the best way to divide

    a

    <br>program into an economical set of classes. In addition to speeding

    development

    <br>time, proper class construction and reuse results in far fewer lines

    of code,

    <br>which translates to less bugs and lower maintenance costs.

    <p>===================

    <br> ;

    <p><b>Junk or Subclassed data? ; Depends on your bias, doesn't it!!</b>

    <p>Decidedly_Unsure

    <br> ;

    <p>BTW an eg of much subclassing/inheritance occurs in many languages for

    MS

    <br>Windows, where most classes are derived from the superclass called

    Window.

    <br>For eg. a pushbutton may have available to it all the methods of a

    window

    <br>including resizing, minimizing etc even though not surfaced to the

    user.

    <p>A pushbutton could well ask: why do I need all these methods? I just

    need to

    <br>be clicked!! ; From the programmers viewpoint it just happens to

    be a more

    <br>efficient way to do things.

    <p>Guess man was really made in God's image after all. ; He's even

    beginning to

    <br>learn how to create efficiently!!

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Decidedly,

    I tried to read through your text, but the format is almost impossible to follow.

    Could you rewrite or edit, so as to help?

    Thanks,

    DannyBear

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    Danny bears right just click on the edit paper to your right.

    If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
  • rem
    rem

    Decidedly,

    Very interesting post. I've thought along the same lines as this before as I am also in the computer field. My initial reaction (which may be unfounded) would be this:

    99% of all species that have ever lived on this planet have gone extinct. Are we version 9,9576.21 of whatever code god can't seem to get right and will we be replaced by version 9,9577.00 soon? It's easy to take one aspect of the DNA evidence by itself and form a plausible sounding theory, but unfortunately this theory doesn't take into consideration all of the other facts, such as great extinctions, fossil record of clear change over time, observed speciation, Mitochondrial DNA (not DNA in the nucleus) which shows clear ancestry, etc.

    I haven't had enough time to give a more thoughtful reply, since it's bed time over here. I look forward to other responses and to more discussion with you on this topic in the future.

    rem

    "We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain
  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    DW,

    Tried your suggestion, did not improve the format....never knew you could access edit on another poster's thread. I see you can't make any changes....maybe all of our post's would improve substantially if it were so! LOL

    Thanks

    Danny

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