The Stimulus Debate in USA

by Julie 7 Replies latest jw friends

  • Julie
    Julie

    Greetings to all:

    With all the talk of politics on the board lately I thought I would share with you some information on an important debate going on right now in the US. That would be the economic stimulus package.

    http://216.33.240.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=28bb2a04d1720e2779197658f7ba7d97&lat=1006869672&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2emotherjones%2ecom%2fweb_exclusives%2fcommentary%2fopinion%2fstimulus%2ehtml

    The meat of the article reads:

    This caper all started in the days after Sept. 11, when Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan called for a $50-100 billion stimulus package to pump life into the staggering economy. In the bipartisan spirit of the moment, the president signed off on principles drawn up by leaders of both budget committees: that the stimulus package be balanced between spending and tax cuts, be temporary in duration to avoid running up permanent deficits, be targeted to those most in need, and have immediate effect.

    The Economic Detriment Package
    Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz has serious concerns about the short-term effectiveness of the Bush administration's economic stimulus package -- and the long-term risks it may pose.


    Then the business lobby kicked in. The lobbyists realized the growing support forming behind a stimulus package presented them with a great chance to pocket tax breaks that they'd sought for years -- to the tune of tens of billions of dollars. House Republicans eagerly assisted them, forcing through a package -- adopted in a party line vote -- that violated every one of the principles the president had previously embraced.

    The House bill isn't balanced; it consists almost entirely of tax cuts, most of them for corporations and the wealthy. It isn't temporary; the corporate and upper income tax breaks are permanent. It isn't targeted to those most in need; the working men and women who've lost their jobs in the downturn will get little if any aid. It will provide little immediate stimulus to the economy; the tax cuts will instead contribute to large deficits down the road.

    Moreover, the bill fails to meet basic economic criteria. Corporate tax cuts don't work very well in a recession, when businesses need customers, not capital. Congress just forked over $15 billion to the airline companies -- which still proceeded to lay off nearly 100,000 workers, citing a sharp downturn in the number of passengers.

    Permanently eliminating various corporate taxes doesn't pass the economic sniff test, either. A permanent repeal removes any incentive for companies to make new investments while the economy is in recession. For example, the largest single item in the House bill allows companies to write off new investments at a much faster rate. The assumption is that it will encourage companies to make investments now while the economy is in trouble. But the House bill extends the write-off for three years, removing any incentive for a company to make an early decision.

    The bill would also permanently legitimize the tax dodge -- worth $21 billion over 10 years -- that allows financial service corporations to avoid paying taxes on income made abroad, provided they don't bring the money home. This will be good for General Electric and perhaps for Germany, but it won't do anything to get our economy moving. The House bill also accelerates the upper income tax cuts passed in the original Bush tax "relief" bill. An estimated seventy-five percent of American households would get exactly nothing from this bauble.

    But that's not the worst of it. The House bill repeals the alternative minimum corporate tax, the tax signed into law by Ronald Reagan that ensures that profitable companies pay at least something in taxes no matter how clever their accountants. To add insult to that legislative injury, the bill doesn't only eliminate the tax permanently; it repeals the tax retroactively for 15 years. Sixteen major companies will pocket a cool $7.4 billion in instant tax rebates. IBM would get $1.4 billion; Ford $1 billion; General Motors and General Electric over $600 million each. Many of the big rebates -- no surprise here -- go to oil and gas interests. This isn't a stimulus, it's simply a scandal.

    Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill initially dismissed the House bill as "show time," for contributors and lobbyists. But Majority Leader Dick Armey and GOP Whip Tom DeLay, the House's conservative enforcers, marched up to the White House to get the Bush administration back in line. The president immediately abandoned the principles he'd signed onto, and announced he "was pleased" with the House bill.

    Senate Democrats on the Finance Committee looked ready to deal. But that roused union leaders, already livid at the airline bailout that had done nothing for workers, to launch a counter-lobbying campaign. Senate Democrats responded by coughing up a surprisingly decent economic stimulus bill of their own, one that hews far closer to the initial criteria, featuring spending on domestic security, help for unemployed workers and temporary investment credits rather than open-ended tax breaks for corporations and the wealthy.

    ----------------------------------------------------

    I would be interested to see any opinions on this debate from some of the politically outspoken posters here.

    Regards,
    Julie

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    I'm not very politically outspoken. However, the so-called "stimulus" package does seem like opportunism on the part of the wealthy corporations. I'm not against such corporations, it's just that they always seem to have the strength to unfairly tilt things in their direction whenever they please.

    Additionally, the economy seems to be slowly recovering on its own, despite the fact that a recession was just declared. I read reports of a large upswing in the American economy in October. And 40 million people DID travel over this past holiday weekend. The Thanksgiving weekend is traditionally the busiest travel weekend of the year. And despite the events of 9/11, that was true this year to a good extent.

    So I don't understand the point of pushing a stimulus package any further. It seems like political opportunism, and the American public ought to see it for what it is.

    GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
    Mark Twain (1835-1910)

  • drahcir yarrum
    drahcir yarrum

    Julie:

    The article you cited has the following quote:

    "Then the business lobby kicked in. The lobbyists realized the growing support forming behind a stimulus package presented them with a great chance to pocket tax breaks that they'd sought for years -- to the tune of tens of billions of dollars. House Republicans eagerly assisted them, forcing through a package -- adopted in a party line vote -- that violated every one of the principles the president had previously embraced". . .

    Since a first year economics student knows that businesses don't pay taxes, they simply pass them along to consumers in the cost of goods sold, I don't see how providing tax cuts to businesses, small or large, could be detrimental in stimulating the economy. The logic follows this way: if passing on taxes makes the cost of goods sold higher for the consumer, then lowering taxes to businesses could make the cost of goods lower for the consumer. Companies are much more likely to pass on their variable cost savings in the retail price because they MUST meet their fixed costs in the long run to keep the doors open.

    I am reminded of what liberal democrat Michael Dukakis said when running for president in the early 90's. "You can't be for a strong economy and at the same time be against business." SHOCKING isn't it.

  • Julie
    Julie

    Hi drahcir yarrum,

    I follow your reasoning but if there is no benfit to tax cuts for corporations why do they spend so much money on lobbyists to influece lawmakers to legislate to their benefit? Why would large corporations pursue tax-cuts so vigorously? Are they being philanthropic toward their customers? Do you think any of those tax savings every make their way into political coffers?

    Not only do corporations do everything possible to keep their taxes down their lobbyists work very hard to influence our national budget in other ways too. For instance, how much (or how little)money is allotted to agencies that police them (i.e. the USDA). This is something the various industries watch closely and manipulate greatly. This does not benefit "the people", I assure you.

    My views shouldn't be confused with those of being "against business". Not at all. I am all for a strong economy, businesses flourishing and the stock market making gains. What I am against is business having too much influence in Washington.

    Thanks for your thoughts, you too Gopher, you political animal you!

    Julie

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    I'm generally against the government trying to influence the economy -- they usually makes things worse, or work too late. As was pointed out, the economy is slowing righting its ship anyway. But politicians like to be seen as "doing" something, so they do what comes naturally -- take our tax money and waste it.

    This stimulus package is basically a bunch of giveaways in the form of corporate welfare. Socialism in action. My take on it is encapsulated in this political cartoon:

    http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cx/uc/20011126/po/po011126.html?u

  • jelly
    jelly

    Seeker,

    I agree with you that this package is bad, it’s not really a stimulus package at all. But my point of contention is that it is not corporate welfare. The money the corporations are going to be getting is from the money they earned, it’s a tax break. Welfare is where you get money from the government that you NEVER earned, i.e. Pork.

    I agree with the concept of tax cuts to stimulate an economy (coupled with a few spending programs that focus on infrastructure) but I think the tax incentives need to be more focused. If you make the law so that companies COG is decreased by investment in alternative energy sources they will invest just in order to stay competitive. Tax cuts, when done correctly, can be used to reward behavior and gently nudge industry in a beneficial direction

    Richard Murray,

    Good point about business passing on cost, very true. I think we need to focus on creating incentives for industries to stay here. Incentives like lower tax rates. I would like to see these tax breaks however be applied with a little more common sense. The current proposal just seems to be aimed at enlarging businesses profit but with little real benefit to the economy as a whole.

    Jelly

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    Jelly,

    Thanks for the important distinction between corporate welfare and tax breaks. There is a difference, and it is good to keep it straight.

    The conservative approach to every economic problem is to let the rich have more of thir money, in the assumption that it will trickle down to all. As has been shown during the Reagan years, what ends up happening instead is that the rich do exceedingly well, the upper-middle-class make strides, the middle class get middling results, and the poor get hammered. Nice theory, not so good in practice.

    I'm not sure what the best approach to take is, but more often than not I tend to want the government to stay out of the way (yup, I'm a fine liberal, huh?). Economies go up, and they go down, and every time the government sticks their nose into the mess they are usually a day late and a dollar short (but their corporate friends make out well regardless).

  • Julie
    Julie

    Thanks to all who commented. I am especially disturbed by items like this from the article:

    -- worth $21 billion over 10 years -- that allows financial service corporations to avoid paying taxes on income made abroad, provided they don't bring the money home.

    I mean I don't know that even the slickest spin-doctor can possibly make that look like it can in anyway benefit the american people. What a bunch of schlock.

    Disappointed we haven't seen anything from all those politically savy folks on the board who always seem so eager to talk politics and issues.

    Ah well.

    Regards,
    Julie

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