Do The "Four Living Creatures" Have "Harps"??? (Revelation 5:8-10)

by Observer17 3 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Observer17

  Hi all,

  Please consider with me the following verses, which raises a curious question for us all.

  Revelation 5:8-10 says:

  "8 And when he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, having each one a harp and golden bowls that were full of incense, and the [incense] means the prayers of the holy ones. 9 And they sing a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth." -- New World Translation

  My question has to do with the mention of the "harps" being used by BOTH PARTIES namely, (1) the "Four Living Creatures" and (2) the "24 Elders" and whether BOTH PARTIES are actually singing the "New Song."

  Here is a quote from the Revelation Grand Climax book, page 85 (par. 14) which states:

  "...But these elders ARE ALONE in having harps and bowls of incense. And THEY ALONE now sing a new song."

  Also, a clarifying comment is made in the footnote (page 85) about this particular understanding of the verse,

  "Grammatically speaking, the expression 'having each one a harp and golden bowls that were full of incense' could refer both to the elders and to the four living creatures. The context, however, makes it clear that the expression REFERS ONLY TO THE 24 ELDERS."

  Still after reading these verses for yourself, do not the verses above actually show BOTH PARTIES, have a "harp," also a "bowl of incense" each, and both parties actually sing the "new song" themselves? Isn't this the case?

  However, as shown in a footnote in the Revelation Grand Climax book (1988) when discussing this info, the Watchtower Society does not believe BOTH PARTIES, namely the "Four Living Creatures" AND the "24 Elders" are actually singing the "New Song" together, and neither do they believe BOTH PARTIES mentioned, make use of the "harps" to do so.

  What are you thoughts on this viewpoint?

  Thanks in advance for any replies.

  Observer
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  james_woods

  I long ago stopped trying to make any logical sense out of Revelation, except for it being a sort of apocalyptic work of Hellenistic-Jewish mythology.

  However, it would seem to me that you are right gramatically - both the 4 livings creatures and the 24 elders seem to each have a harp. (and a golden incense bowl, for that matter). And, you could make the case that all sing a new song.

  It is also significant that all were said to have been "slaughtered", and "bought people..." - almost a Christlike expression of deep mystery.

  I think that I have read in non-witness Revelation theology that this is the root of belief that these entities, and also the 144,000 (which they belived were either the same thing or related) - were actually representative of the total body of Christian martyrs.

  They went on to say that Christian martyrdom held a special place in the church - as it was almost an imitative parallel of the Christ on the Cross.

  I have long since quit worrying about literal applications of these things, and view it as part of the creative mythology of the early church...to be viewed as strange, powerful, and to some - beautiful literature.
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  OUTLAW

  Of course Angels have Harps!....When your promoted to be an Angel..You get a Harp,Halo and Wings.....OUTLAW
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  james_woods

  OK, outlaw - I promise never again to try to make a serious reply to a Revalation interpretation subject.