Question on 1914

by cameo-d 4 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  cameo-d

  I read this on "religion facts" and wonder how WT explains this as it seems to contradict scripture.

  A belief that is unique to Jehovah's Witnesses is that the eschatological events predicted in Revelation began in 1914. This is when God gave Jesus his Kingdom, and Jesus has been ruling from heaven ever since. At this time Jesus threw Satan and his demons out of heaven and down to earth, which is why, according to Witnesses, the world has been getting progressively worse since 1914. {12}

  How do they rationalize this when the scripture says, according to Jesus' spoken word, that satan was cast out before jesus came to earth?

  Luke 10: 18 Jesus told them: I saw Satan fall from heaven like a flash of lightning

  Seems to be it indicates a past event.

  Could this be used in disproving the 1914 teaching? Or do they have some answer to 'cover that'?
• 

  garybuss

  Jehovah's Witnesses are extremely superstitious . . . childishly superstitious, with a large dose of conspiracy theory. They think there is a global conspiracy with them at the center, with the bad Jewish literature characters plotting their demise, and the "good" Jewish literature characters threatening to murder them if they don't follow the Jehovah's Witness leaders directions.
  
  Historical Witnesses are descendents of the Bible Students, who were descendents of the Second Advent movement, that followed the failings of William Miller. The whole Witness theology premise borrowed from Miller and the Second Advent preachers, is that the Bible is written in code. They claim two basic keys to the code:
  
  1. Numerology
  
  The 1843-1844, 1884, and the 1910-1914 predictions relied heavily on Numerology, with some Pyramidology and spirit channeling thrown in. The Numerology formula to arrive at 1914 from Biblical text is found in current Watch Tower Publishing Corporation produced literature.
  
  
  2. The typical and the a-typical.
  
  The types and the anti-types is the every day bread and butter of Witness dogma. The abstract of the thesis is that every character, every pattern, every parable, every story has a dual fulfillment or a dual meaning. That's how the parable of the sheep and the goats came to be applied to the door to door literature distributors who's product is produced in the United States by a business corporation.
  
  
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  Mary

  At this time Jesus threw Satan and his demons out of heaven and down to earth, which is why, according to Witnesses, the world has been getting progressively worse since 1914. {12}How do they rationalize this when the scripture says, according to Jesus' spoken word, that satan was cast out before jesus came to earth?
  
  
  Luke 10: 18 Jesus told them: I saw Satan fall from heaven like a flash of lightning
  
  Seems to be it indicates a past event.

  I remember asking this during the BS when we were studying the Revelation Climax book. Their answer to the problematic verse in Luke 10:18 is that Jesus was actually seeing a 'future event', even though there's nothing in the context that indicates anything of the kind. But since they start at the premise that Satan was ousted from heaven in 1914 (with having no facts to support such a belief), they had to come up with something and this is apparently the best they could do.

  I think it's worth noting that many scholars view the whole "battle in heaven" between Satan and Michael as an event that happened long before man was ever created, and would explain why Jesus referred to it as a past event. But of course, common sense and logic are two qualities that are sorely lacking in Dub-dumb Land.
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  yknot

  Here is what the pubs say......

  ***

  w04 8/1 p.28 Questions From Readers***

  Questions

  FromReaders

  What

  did Jesus mean when he told his disciples: "I began to behold Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven"?

  Jesus had just chosen 70 disciples, and he "sent them forth by twos in advance of him into every city and place to which he himself was going to come." When the 70 returned, they were rejoicing over the success of their mission. "Lord, even the demons are made subject to us by the use of your name," they said. At that point, Jesus said: "I began to behold Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven."—Luke 10:1, 17, 18.

  At first, it may seem that Jesus was referring to an event that had already taken place. Yet, 60 years after Jesus uttered the above words, the aged apostle John employed similar language, writing: "Down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him."—Revelation 12:9.

  When John penned those words, Satan still resided in heaven. How do we know? Because Revelation is a book of prophecy, not history. (Revelation 1:1) Hence, as of John’s day, Satan had not yet been cast down to earth. In fact, evidence shows that this did not occur until shortly after Jesus was enthroned as King of God’s Kingdom in 1914.—Revelation 12:1-10.

  Why, then, did Jesus speak of Satan’s ouster from heaven as if it had already happened? Some scholars suggest that Jesus was rebuking his disciples for showing improper pride. They believe that he, in effect, was saying: ‘You triumphed over the demons, but do not become boastful. Satan became prideful, and that led to his quick downfall.’

  We cannot be dogmatic in the matter. However, it seems more likely that Jesus was rejoicing with his disciples and referring to Satan’s future demise. More than any of his disciples, Jesus was well aware of the vicious animosity of the Devil. Imagine the joy Jesus felt at hearing that the powerful demons were being made subject to his imperfect human disciples! This subjugation of the demons was just a foregleam of the future day when Jesus, as Michael the archangel, would battle with Satan and cast him from heaven to earth.

  When Jesus said that he beheld Satan "already fallen," he was evidently underscoring the certainty of Satan’s fall. This is similar to other Bible prophecies that speak of future events in the past tense. For example, note the mixing of past and future tenses in the prophecy concerning the Messiah at Isaiah 52:13–53:12. Jesus likely was expressing confidence that Satan’s ouster from heaven would take place according to His Father’s purpose. Jesus was also certain that in God’s due time, Satan and his demons would be abyssed and later destroyed once and for all.—Romans 16:20; Hebrews 2:14; Revelation 20:1-3, 7-10.

  [Footnote]

  See KnowledgeThatLeadstoEverlastingLife, chapter 10, and Revelation—ItsGrandClimaxAtHand! chapter 27, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
• 

  cameo-d

  Thank you all for the enlightening information here, even though its disturbing.

  Mary, glad you asked that ? too. I don't think their answers are very convincing. Not to me, anyway.

  Ynot, thank you for your work in locating that piece of material. It makes me think if they keep talking long enough they will just tie your mind in knots and you will shut up and quit asking questions. I suppose since it does not make sense to normal people, they would just try to say "well its over your head" and try to make you look like the stupid one.

  It really insults one's intelligence to read the lies they are putting out. The way they try to "cover all the bases" reminds me of a kid that goes great lengths to tell a lie....you've heard kids make up stories that get more and more off track as they embroider. That's what that page sounds like to me.

  I especially take issue with the attitude of stating as fact that Revelation is all future prophecy. I see a lot of connections in it to the past. For instance this segment which seems logical to me in explaining that Cain was the son of satan. Just adding this for reference in case you're curious. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/165196/1.ashx

  Also "Satan falling like lightening" is upheld by many old testament scriptures that speak of the planet Rahab. Much has been written concerning the planet Rahab being where the fallen angels were banished to when they were first cast out of the presence of the creators. The word associations with "Rahab' are interesting to ponder. The word "rab" is an archaic word for slave. And the word rabbi....could that have been a derrivitive? ( Satan from planet Rahab... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/165415/3066466/post.ashx#3066466)

  Someone on the board a while back asked about what good questions could you ask a JW at your door...and I thought of that when I saw this jwfact mentioned about satan cast out in 1914. Well, it just looks like they "have all the answers" don't they?

  Oh, and by the way, I think Revelation reveals "The Big Lie" that people will be told. I have read that religions will fuse more toward Hindu-Buddhism and that the "tree of life" as mentioned in Rev. will be explained as the Bodhi tree that Buddha sat under when he "became enlightened". The Bodhi is a "Sacred Fig" tree. I think Rev. has to be illustrating the big deception because I don't believe there can ever be a paradise earth on this planet. Jesus said you don't put new wine in old skins....so I don't think this place will be patched up. I think we are going somewhere new.