Any thoughts on the 'Brethren'?

by Slappy 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Slappy

  As my bio mentions, I grew up in a non-denominational setting and am very thankful for that. However, there are still a few things that are held within this setting to be truth (Will of God, Biblical, or whatever else you care to call it) that I find very disconcerting. I've tried, on various occassions, to discuss this with others within the 'Brethren' but they are leery of such topics and tend to view me as cynical and jaded and a danger to the proper order of things . So I figure I'll ask around and see if any of you have an idea or perspective on such.

  Our 'group' was a result of the 'Brethren' movement started by Darby and others over in England. Furthermore, this particular 'Brethren' offshoot is commonly referred to as the 'Closed Brethren'. It is the reason for the 'closed' part that makes me uncomfortable.

  While they don't hold that you have to be a part of the 'Brethren' to be saved (which, if they did, I would have distanced myself long ago), they do have a quirky idea that I have yet to find support for in the Bible. (I'll also add that in my various studies and understanding of the other 'Biblical' religions in existance, the 'Brethren' do have a greater understanding of the Bible than do most, with the notable exception of the Calvary Chapel movement.)

  The 'Brethren' hold that there is a place where God has set His name for all believers to come together in remembrance of Him...and that they are IT, of course . First off, I have yet to find a place where the Bible says that God has set His name in ANY place. Although, one portion they use to support their claim is in Deuteronomy 12 (vs 13 & 14 in particular). However, how they can justify still adhereing to life under the LAW as it was meant for the Jews and before Christ and Grace, I have yet to figure out. Especially since they hold that the sacrifice of Christ forever banished the law and that to return to the law is very much in the wrong. Doing such is essentially saying "No thanks" to Jesus and still attempting to find our own way through this maze of life.

  There are a few other things that I question are right, but I'll deal with one thing at a time. Besides, without a more-than-cursory understanding of the 'Brethren' beliefs, people will only get confused. I'm not even sure I could sufficiently explain things unless one first has an idea of what the 'Brethren' hold.

  Thanks in advance for insight you may offer.

  slappy
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  AnneB

  A lot of my family were Brethren from the start of the movement, so I thought I'd look into what they believed. At first I was happy; I thought I'd found something good, but then I saw that they were just as man-made as the Watchtower so I lost interest entirely.

  Why do you want to examine their beliefs when you already see that their basic premise is contradictory?

  A.
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  yadda yadda 2

  Slappy, can you elucidate how this Brethen group uses Deuteronomy 12 to support the idea that they are the 'place' where God has set his name? I'm a bit confused because you then go on to talk about the law, which is another subject altogether.
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  StAnn

  Around here we have the Church of the Brethren, who are pretty mainstream and share a local seminary with the Quakers, and then we have the Old Order German Baptist Brethren, who are separatists, pacifists, the women wear cape dresses, they don't have TV or radio, etc.

  Are either of these close to the same Brethren you're affiliated with? I know the Church of the Brethren is really into social justice.

  StAnn
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  Slappy

  AnneB:

  While they do appear to be contradictory in this instance, I think it's more a result of the fear of change and as such, they tend to adhere to tradition than to continually look to the Bible to test their views and opinions. Their one saving grace, IMO, is that their reason to hold such beliefs is not prompted by any desire for material gain or the praise of men; as I see in so many other denominations. However, that being said, I do believe that there are still some individuals, who, throught their knowledge of the Bible, seem to feel that they have a better idea than anybody else on how things should be and as such are more overbearing than a 'meek and humble' spirit should be. The pride of man and the 'working of the Spirit' can never and will never co-exist.

  As for why I want to examine their beliefs, I do so because I want to understand how they have interpreted things that makes them feel that they are correct in their stance. It's just that in my own studies, it appears that the Bible contradicts this 'one place' idea. Matthew 18:20, Mark 9:38-41, and Luke 9:49-50 are 3 of my favorite portions that seem to dissuade any notion of such a place.

  yadda yadda:

  Sorry, that wasn't very clear. They use Deut. 12 as support of a 'One Place' existing. They then make the claim that they are IT (although I'm not sure how they can be so bold). Of course, every other denomination in existance seems to make that claim also, so I guess if everybody is doing it....

  stAnn:

  No nothing like that, there are no such rules per se. I'm not really sure how to explain it. Check out www.johndarby.org to gain an idea of how things are.
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  Satanus

  They are mixing ot laws/system, which was for jews only and proselites, and nt/christianity, which was supposed to be for everyone. They don't mix very well. It's kind of like running a car on wagon wheels and radial rubber tires at the same time. Wt corp does the same thing.
  
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  Satanus

  Maybe, you would feel better w the open brethren.
  
  S
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  Slappy

  I'm thinking I would too. However, this isn't a question of where I might feel better (after moving, I haven't attended a 'church' of any sort for a year or so), but a question of whether or not I can show them why they're not entirely right. I know many of them do not feel comfortable with that stance either, but are to 'afraid' to make an attempt to change things. It's most likely an impossible task, but I have a penchant for wasting my time in trying to achieve the unachievable .

  Btw, you're absolutely right about trying to mix the OT and the NT. Not that we should ignore the OT, but when it's evident that what applied in the OT is now overriden by Grace, we should not seek to follow what is no longer applicable.

  "For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and NOT the very image of the things, can NEVER with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those show approach perfect." Hebews 10:1

  "Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations...according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humilty, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh." Colossians 2:20-23
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  Satanus

  Some people say that the only person you are able to change is yourself. But, trying to change the religion can get that out of your system.
  
  S
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  yadda yadda 2

  Frankly I think its impossible to convince a particular religious group that they are not IT in one fell swoop. You can only cast doubts in their minds about the groups teachings, creeds, history, etc. It's usually a slow process and most persons who wake up and realise their group is not IT do not experience a sudden epiphany about it. It's a dawning realisation that forms gradually

  Those scriptures in Deuteronomy 12 are direct words to Israel and nothing to do with Christian worship. There is nothing prophetic about them whatsoever. But try convincing them of that.