Most damning portion?

Slappy

I've tried posting this twice b4, but apparently Firefox wasn't working all that well, so I'll see if it actually works with IE.

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Is Luke 23:39-43 the single most damning portion in the Bible for the JW, Mormon, and other similar 'religions' that profess to believe in the God of the Bible?

When did the thief do good works in order to attain his salvation? When did he have the time to follow a 'religious' body and adhere to its rules in order that he may attain salvation?

Just a random thought I found interesting.

If you are saying the JW's et al teach that persons must belong to and adhere to an organised religious with a body of rules to gain salvation, accompanied by works, then I'd say yes, Luke 23:39-43 does indeed pose difficulties in maintaining such a position because the evildoer next to Jesus appears to have been assured of salvation without any of that. I assume that's the point you are making?

I think this account must support C T Russell's belief that mankind is judged during the 1,000 year reign, not before it at Armageddon, as the JW's teach (as taught by J Rutherford). It shows that pretty much everyone (except those who commit the unforgiveable sin and are in Gehenna) will get a second chance at life, regardless of works, wickedness, religious affiliation. Russell I think taught that those of wicked or ignorant mankind who are destroyed at Armageddon will get a resurrection.

JW's base their belief on Matt 25, which suggests a judgment for eternal life or cutting off when Christ returns and sits on his throne. JW's see that as a very brief window in time during the GT culminating in Armageddon, whereas I think Russell saw Matt 25 being fulfilled over the entire 1,000 year reign.

Good topic btw.

DaCheech

another bible contradiction

Slappy

Er...

What's another Bible contradiction DaCheech?

DaCheech

jesus forgave many even in their last breath.

others later such as Paul was disfellowshipping people left and right.

ananias and saffira were damned for a stupid lie.

Slappy

jesus forgave many even in their last breath.

Yep!

others later such as Paul was disfellowshipping people left and right.

So incest is ok?

'Disfellowshipping' was a result of people carrying on in such a way, as stated above, that was in direct contradiction with the desires of Jesus. While Jesus had the authority to forgive people their sins, the apostles had no such authority. So they couldn't forgive and they couldn't allow such a one to continue on as if everything was ok, because it most definitely was not. Besides, I'm not sure that forgiveness and 'disfellowshipping' can even be compared.

ananias and saffira were damned for a stupid lie.

Stupid lie? So there are some lies that are ok and some that aren't? Furthermore what did Jesus Himself say about blaspheming the Holy Spirit? "...but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation" Mark 3:29 (also Luke 12:10). And what did Peter say that Ananias and Sapphira had done? "But Peter said, 'Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit...?'" Acts 5:3

DaCheech

So incest is ok?

ask lot's daughters

Slappy

And you think that was somehow condoned? Just look at the result of that incestuous relationship. Genesis 19:36-68 points out that this is the beginning of the Moabites and the Ammonites, and as you can see later on, Moab and Ammon where constant thorns in the side of Israel.

yadda yadda 2

Slappy, dont let people taunt and distract you. Most persons on this forum have no love or faith God and the bible remember.

In a nutshell, I think Luke 23: 39-43 shows that in the final analysis, having faith in Jesus and expressing that is all that is needed for salvation. Religious affiliations, works, etc, can help with that but they will not save someone in the end. Those having faith in and calling on the name of the Lord (Jesus) will be saved.

I don't see JW's doing a lot of that....

Most damning portion?

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