Four Horsemen

cameo-d

Does WT teach that the rider on White horse is Jesus?

Do the other horsemen have identities that are actually named?

From memory I think they do still teach this that Jesus is the first horseman riding the White horse (Rev 6:2) followed by the 4 horsemen.
Also Rev 19:11 'the faithful and true' one and the same first on the White horse but this time followed by an army.

According to them it's the same horse and same rider only having different duties. That's all I recall.

Witchettygrub

cameo-d

Ok. This is what I was thinking. According to wiki, the rider on the white horse depicted in Rev. 6 is wicked and is not the same rider of the white horse as in Rev. 19

The evil rider on white horse is depicted as having a kingdom since he has a crown.

He conquers nations with a bow (no mention of an arrow) so maybe he uses threats or intimidation of some kind to conquer.

Could white be symbolic of a nationalistic color? Could this go back to the Capitoline Hill? In ancient history, the hill was the site of the Temple of Jupiter, which worshipped the Capitoline Triad. Again, according to wiki, a skull was recovered when laying the foundation for this temple. Could we likewise make an analogy that the Capitol as well as the Capitoline Hill are both founded on skull symbolism?

The second horse is red and he takes peace from the earth and causes killing. Red is a color we use to describe political views of nations. China and Russia both have the connotation as being "red". Perhaps there are others, too.

So could it be, that these horses and riders all come into play in this last generation?

Leolaia

From my Comments on the generation change:

Third, the interpretation here identifies Jesus as the rider of the first horse, although such an identification is not made in the text itself. Rather, this identification is facilitated by conflating the rider on this white horse with the rider in Revelation 19:11-16. But there are good reasons for rejecting this interpretation. First of all, the figure in ch. 19 is presented in quite a different manner. The horseman in v. 2 was given a ste-pha'-nos, or a wreath of victory, which relates to the rider’s military success (not kingly rulership), whereas the rider in ch. 19 wears dia-de'-mata, the crowns that are associated with true royalty. Second, he is armed with a bow and not a sword. This is detail that is suggestive of the Parthian army, whose archers were renowned. The forces associated with the Beast in Revelation (cf. 9:1-19, 16:12-14; cf. 17:12-13) also appear to have been Parthians, and these were depicted as horsemen wearing gold ste-pha'-noi (9:7-9), and it was widely feared during the time when Revelation was written that the Parthians would invade from the East, led by Nero redidivus. The scenario in Revelation is quite similar to the ones in the Sibylline Oracles:
“A great king [Nero] will flee from Italy like a runaway slave unseen and unheard over the channel of the Euphrates, when he dares to incur a maternal curse for repulsive murder and many other things, confidently, with wicked hand. When he runs away, beyond the Parthian land, many will bloody the ground for the throne of Rome. A leader of Rome will come to Syria who will burn the Temple of Jerusalem with fire, at the same time slaughter many men…Then the strife of war being aroused will come to the west, and the fugitive from Rome will also come, brandishing a great spear, having crossed the Euphrates with many myriads… Great wealth will come to Asia, which Rome itself once plundered and deposited in her house of many possessions.” – Sibylline Oracles, 4.119-146; written in the late first century AD.
This suggests the possibility that the rider on the white horse in ch. 6 is parallel to Apollyon in ch. 9 and the Beast of the later chapters. The Beast is elsewhere shown as imitating Jesus Christ, but in an inferior way (cf. the “resurrection” of the Beast in 13:3, 17:8, and compare 17:8 with 1:4). Finally, it was Jesus Christ himself as the Lamb who was opening the seals and thus it is unlikely that the author construes the Lamb as a horseman summoned by his own breaking of the seal.

yadda yadda 2

Excellent Leolaia, thanks for that research. I also think it's also a crucial point that the 3 other horseman are all states, conditions, not individuals. The white horse and rider should logically be the same. Something to do with victory, conquest of the earth by the evil forces that follow, as Doug Mason suggests. The mistake made by the Watchtower is easy to make though as the similarity with the white horse and rider in Rev 19 is obvious.

Witness 007

I bet $100 bucks on the White Horse to win!!!!!!!!

cameo-d

Since the rider of the first horse is wearing a crown... lets consider the literal meanings of the possibility of this crown.

First of all there is no information to uphold that it is any monarchy or specific governmental entity. The "Crown" may be a private foreign power. There is a specific church that has been known as the Crown for centuries.

What is the difference between a temple and a church? Is there any difference or could the crown actually be a Temple Church? This particular church is outside any canonical jurisdiction.

Is it possible that legal and financial systems are controlled by a crowned temple? Is there not an entity known as crown bankers, (which does not refer to any national monarchy)?

Aculama

I have always thought this to represent the anti-Christ spirit...The "form" of righteousness ( religion ), but no sword ( the Word of God ). An evil entity that misrepresents God and funnels worship belonging to God to Satan in the form of religion. I wish I could write and express myself as well as Leolaia.

snowbird

I have always thought this to represent the anti-Christ spirit...The "form" of righteousness ( religion ), but no sword ( the Word of God ). An evil entity that misrepresents God and funnels worship belonging to God to Satan in the form of religion.

I've also come to the conclusion that the rider on the white horse represents religious deception. After all, mimicking God is Satan's modus operandi. Also, since the other 3 riders depict negative things, why a sudden switch to something positive? When you take off the WT filters and begin to question and search for yourself, you'll be surprised at what you'll find.

I wish I could write and express myself as well as Leolaia.

You do a fine job at just being yourself.

Sylvia

Leolaia

yadda yadda....Good point about the lack of parsimony in the interpretation of the first rider as a person and the others as symbols of conditions. I personally would prefer to see the horsemen as personifying woes. If the Nero redivuvus mytho-political conception of the book is kept in mind, the interpretation of the horses is pretty straightforward: (1) the white horse represents the conquest of the Roman Empire by the Beast and his Parthian forces (9:1-19, 13:11-18, 16:12, 17:10-11), (2) the red horse represents the resulting civil war that breaks out in the Empire (16:14-16, 17:12, 16-18), with all the client nations of Rome attacking and destroying the great city; the reference to the horseman "taking peace away from the world" is an allusion to the Pax Romana that then comes to an end, (3) the black horse represents the economic collapse and food shortages that result from the destruction of Rome (cf. 18:8, 11-12), and (4) the pale horse represents the death that results from the war, famine, and other woes. That is at least how it reads in its current literary context; it is certainly possible to isolate the vision of the four horsemen and treat it as a self-contained unit independent of the rest of Revelation. There are partial parallels of the four horsemen elsewhere in apocalyptic literature and in Greek mythology.

Four Horsemen

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