Hello, I have seen on several websites lists of sources for readings in the New World Translation which seem to have been cut-and-pasted from the WTLIB CD. I noticed, however, that some of these lists give an additional J-source (J28) not found in my English editions. (J28 is said to be The New Covenant Commonly Called the New Testament: Peshitta Aramaic Text With a Hebrew Translation. Ed. The Aramaic Scriptures Research Society in Israel, Jerusalem: United Bible Societies, 1986.) All of the sites that refer to this J-source are not in English. (see for example http://espanol.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070514092334AAjG0ru [Spanish]; http://freeforumzone.leonardo.it/lofi/2-Timoteo-2-22-quelli-che-invocano-il-Signore-Ges-249-dimostrabile-/D6152004.html [Italian]) Thus, I assume that this is a source which was later utilized in some foreign language editions of the New World Translation. My question is, is this assumption correct? and if so where is it cited in support of the New World Translation's readings in those non-English editions? Mebaqqer
J28 reference?
by Mebaqqer2 6 Replies latest watchtower bible
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possible-san
Hi! Mebaqqer2.
Thank you for teaching the interesting fact.
There was no reference to "J28" in the Japanese edition.
The following is quotation from WTLIB of the Spanish edition and the English edition.*** Rbi8 pág. 10 Introducción ***
J28 The New Covenant Commonly Called The New Testament—Peshitta Aramaic Text With a Hebrew Translation, publicado por The Bible Society, Jerusalén, 1986.(Spanish edition)
*** Rbi8 Hechos 7:37 ***
“Dios”,Álef ABVg; CSyp: “El Señor Dios”; J7,8,10-17: “Jehová su Dios”; J28: “Jehová Dios”.
(English edition)
*** Rbi8 Acts 7:37 ***
“God,”Aleph ABVg; CSyp, “The Lord God”; J7,8,10-17, “Jehovah your God.”(Spanish edition)
*** Rbi8 1 Corintios 7:17 ***
“Jehová”, de acuerdo con J28, Ro 12:3 y 2Co 10:13; P46 Álef ABCD(gr.): ho Ký?ri?os; Syh y TR: “Dios”. Véase Ap. 1D.
(English edition)
*** Rbi8 1 Corinthians 7:17 ***
“Jehovah,” in accord with Ro 12:3 and 2Co 10:13; P46 Aleph ABCD(Gr.), ho Ky'ri?os; Syh and TR, “God.” See App 1D.(Spanish edition)
*** Rbi8 pág. 1564 1D El nombre divino en las Escrituras Griegas Cristianas ***
7:17+* Ky; J28(English edition)
*** Rbi8 p. 1566 1D The Divine Name in the Christian Greek Scriptures ***
7:17+ *Ky;
possible
http://bb2.atbb.jp/possible/
http://godpresencewithin.web.fc2.com/pages/link/link09.html -
Doug Mason
My long interest in the subject of the NWT NT's use of "Jehovah" is shown by the study I wrote almost 30 years ago:
http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/Witnessing_the_Name.pdf
So I am very interested to hear about this "J28".
When I looked at the www (plenty of English-speaking sites), I found that its ISBN is 9997723961 (just Google for that number), but at $150, it's no bargain! There is a review at Amazon, which is quite helpful in describing the book:
I wonder if someone who has the money and the ability could trawl through the whole text to list all of the appearances of YHWH (actually HWHY) in Hebrew and whatever it would be in Aramaic.
And then to list all of the places where the NWT NT uses "Jehovah" in its NT but the Hebrew letters and/or the Aramaic letters do not appear in this Aramaic/Hebrew book
I wonder is someone could access the book to read its Introduction
Maybe someone would be kind enough to describe the historical setting of the NT in Aramaic: where it gets its source from, and so on. And why would one translate into Hebrew from Aramaic? (Perhaps to get Jewish converts to their form of Christianity?)
I see that the people who promote the Aramaic Peshitta claim that the NT was originally written in Aramaic, not in Greek. I wonder if the WTS's action is therefore a support for that claim? It would be interesting to pursue, given the fact that the WTS NT inserts Hebrew letters into a text written in Greek letters. Are they now saying that the original that provides them with YHWH were Aramaic letters? But then how can they cite the LXX as a support for YHWH, when that was written in Greek? What a minefield.
If someone can read Aramaic there is an Aramaic/English interlinear of some books (including Acts) at http://www.peshitta.org/
Doug
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Mebaqqer2
Following the cue from Possible, I have tracked down the Spanish version to find out more about this source. Here is a list of the places cited for J28:
MATTHEW
1:20+ Ky; J3,4,7-14,16-18,22-24,28
1:22 Ky; J1-4,7-14,16-18,22-24,26,28
1:24 Ky; J1-4,7-14,16-18,22-24,28
2:13 Ky; J1-4,6-14,16-18,22-24,28
2:15 Ky; J1,3,4,6-14,16-18,22-24,28
2:19 Ky; J1-4,6-14,16-18,22-24,28
3:3 Ky; J1-4,7-14,16-18,20,22-24,26,28
4:7 Ky; J1-14,16-18,20,22-24,28
4:10 Ky; J1-14,16-18,20,22-24,28
5:33* Ky; J1-4,7-14,16-18,22,23,28
21:9 Ky; J1-14,16-18,20-24,28
21:42 Ky; J1-4,7-14,16-18,20-24,28
22:37 Ky; J1-14,16-18,20-24,28
22:44 Ky; J1-14,16-18,20-24,28
23:39 Ky; J1-14,16-18,21-24,28
27:10 Ky; J1-4,7-14,16,17,22-24,28
28:2 Ky; J1-4,7-13,16-18,22-24,28
MARK
1:3 Ky; J7-14,16-18,22-24,28
5:19* Ky; J7-10,17,18,22,28
11:9 Ky; J7,8,10-14,16-18,21-24,28
12:11 Ky; J7-14,16-18,21-24,28
12:29 Ky; J7-14,16-18,20-24,27,28
12:29 Ky; J7-14,16-18,20-24,28
12:30 Ky; J7-14,16-18,21-24,28
12:36 Ky; J7-14,16-18,21-24,28
13:20 Ky; J7,8,10,13,16-18,22-24,28
LUKE
1:6* Ky; J7-17,23,28
1:9* Ky; J7-18,22,23,28
1:11 Ky; J7-13,16-18,22-24,28
1:15 Ky; J7,8,10-18,22,23,28
1:16 Ky; J7-18,22-24,28
1:17 Ky; J7-18,22-24,28
1:25 Ky; J7-18,22,23,28
1:32 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
1:38 Ky; J5,7-18,22-24,28
1:45 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
1:46* Ky; J5-18,22,23,28
1:66 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
1:68 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
1:76 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
2:9 Ky; J5,7,8,10-18,22-24,28
2:15* Ky; J5,7,8,10-18,22,23,28
2:22* Ky; J5-18,22,23,28
2:23 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
2:23* Ky; J5-18,22,23,28
2:24 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
2:26 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
2:39 Ky; J5-18,22-24,28
3:4 Ky; J7-15,17,18,22-24,28
4:8 Ky; J7-18,22-24,28
4:12 Ky; J7-18,22-24,28
4:19 Ky; J7-18,20,22-24,28
5:17 Ky; J7-18,22-24,28
10:27 Ky; J5-18,21-24,28
13:35 Ky; J7-18,21-24,28
19:38 Ky; J7-18,21-24,28
20:37 Ky; J9,11-18,21-24,27,28
20:42 Ky; J7-18,21-24,28
JOHN
1:23 Ky; J5-14,16-19,22-24,28
12:13 Ky; J7-14,16-19,21-24,28
12:38 Ky; J7-14,16-20,22-24,28
ACTS
2:20 Ky; J7,8,10-18,20,22-24,28
2:21 Ky; J7,8,10-18,20,22-24,28
2:25* Ky; J7,8,10-18,20,22,23,28
2:34 Ky; J7,8,10-18,21-24,28
3:19* Ky; J13-18,22,23,28
3:22+ Ky; J7,8,10-18,20,22-24,28
4:26* Ky; J7,8,10-18,20,22,23,28
5:19 Ky; J7,8,10,13,15-18,22-24,28
7:31 Ky; J11-18,22-24,28
7:33* Ky; J11-18,22,23,28
7:49 Ky; J11-18,20,22-24,28
8:26 Ky; J7,8,10,13,15-18,22-24,28
8:39 Ky; J13,15-18,22-24,28
11:21 Ky; J7,8,10,13,15-18,22,23,28
12:7 Ky; J7,8,10,13,15-18,22-24,28
12:11* Ky; J7,8,10,13,15,16,18,23,28
12:17* Ky; J7,8,10,28
12:23 Ky; J7,8,10,13,15-18,22-24,28
13:10* Ky; J7,8,10,13,15-18,22,23,28
13:11 Ky; J7,8,10,15-18,22-24,28
13:49* Ky; J7,8,10,13,15-18,22,23,28
15:17* Ky; J11-18,22,23,28
15:17 Ky; J7,8,10-18,20,22-24,28
16:32+* Th; J7,8,10,17,18,22,23,28
ROMANS
9:29 Ky; J7,8,10-18,20,22-24,28
10:13 Ky; J7,8,10,13-18,22-24,28
11:34 Ky; J7,8,10,13-18,20,22-25,28
14:11 Ky; J7,8,10-18,22-25,28
15:11* Ky; J7,8,10-18,20,22,23,25,28
1 CORINTHIANS
1:31 Ky; J7,8,10-14,16-18,22-24,28
2:16 Ky; J13,14,16-18,22-24,28
3:20 Ky; J7,8,10-14,16-18,20,22-24,28
4:4 Ky; J7,8,10,17,18,23,24,28
4:19* Ky; J7,8,10,22,23,28
7:17+* Ky; J28
10:26* Ky; J7,8,10,11,13,14,16-18,20,22,23,28
14:21 Ky; J7,8,10-14,16-18,22-24,28
16:10 Ky; J7,8,10,13,14,16-18,24,28
2 CORINTHIANS
3:16 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16,22,24,28
3:17* Ky; J7,8,13,14,16,28
3:17 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16,22,24,28
3:18 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16,22,24,28
3:18 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16,22,24,28
6:17 Ky; J7,8,11-14,16-18,22-24,28
6:18 Ky; J7,8,11-14,16-18,22-24,28
10:17 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
10:18* Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,23,28
EPHESEANS
2:21 Ky; J7,8,13,16-18,22-24,28
5:19* Ky; J7,8,13,16,23,28
COLOSENSES
3:22+* Ky; J18,22,28
2 TIMOTHY
2:19 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,20,22-24,28
2:19 Ky; J18,22-24,28
HEBREWS
7:21 Ky; J3,7,8,11-18,20,22-24,28
8:8 Ky; J3,7,8,11-18,20,22-24,28
8:9 Ky; J3,7,8,11-18,20,22-24,28
8:10 Ky; J3,7,8,11-18,20,22,24,28
8:11* Ky; J3,7,8,11-18,20,22,23,28
10:16 Ky; J3,7,8,11-18,22-24,28
10:30 Ky; J3,7,8,11-18,20,22-24,28
12:5 Ky; J7,8,11-18,20,22-24,28
12:6 Ky; J3,7,8,11-18,20,22-24,28
JAMES
1:7* Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,23,28
3:9+* Ky; J18,23,28
4:10 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,23,28
4:15* Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,23,28
5:4 Ky; J7,8,11-14,16-18,22-24,28
5:10 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
5:11 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16,18,22-24,28
5:11* Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
1 PETER
3:12 Ky; J7,8,11-14,16-18,20,22-24,28
3:12 Ky; J7,8,11-14,16-18,20,22,24,28
2 PETER
2:9 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
3:8 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
3:9 Ky; J7,8,13,16-18,22-24,28
3:10 Ky; J7,8,13,16-18,22-24,28
JUDE
9+ Ky; J7,8,11-14,16-18,22-24,28
14 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
REVELATION
1:8 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
4:8 Ky; J7,8,11-14,16-18,22,24,28
4:11* Ky; J7,8,13,14,16,18,28
11:17 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,23,28
15:3 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,23,28
15:4 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,23,28
16:7 Ky; J13,14,16-18,22,23,28
18:8+ Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
19:6 Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24,28
21:22* Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,23,28
22:5 Ky; J7,8,11-14,16-18,22-24,28
22:6* Ky; J7,8,13,14,16-18,22,24,28
Beyond this, it is cited at:
Luke 2:38 (“Dios”,? AB; VgSyp,s: “el Señor”; J5,7-17,28: “Jehová”) = Jehovah
Acts 7:30 (“Un ángel”, P74?ABCVg; DSyp: “un ángel de[l] Señor”; J7,8,10-17,28: “el ángel de Jehová”) = the angel of Jehovah
Acts 7:37 (“Dios”,? ABVg; CSyp: “El Señor Dios”; J7,8,10-17: “Jehová su Dios”; J28: “Jehová Dios”) = Jehovah God
Acts 14:25 (“Palabra”, BD;? ACVgSyp: “palabra del Señor”; P74: “palabra de Dios”; J17,28: “palabra de Jehová”) = word of Jehovah
I wonder why they have not updated this source in English versions. After all, it does give them "confirmation" for 1 Cor. 7:17. Thank you Possible for looking into this for me.
Mebaqqer -
Mebaqqer2
Doug said
I wonder if the WTS's action is therefore a support for [the claim that the New Testament was originally written in Aramaic]? It would be interesting to pursue, given the fact that the WTS NT inserts Hebrew letters into a text written in Greek letters. Are they now saying that the original that provides them with YHWH were Aramaic letters? But then how can they cite the LXX as a support for YHWH, when that was written in Greek? What a minefield.
I think the mindfield is cleared up once you realize that all the J-sources are used, not as the basis for "restoring" the Divine Name into the New Testament, but to confirm decisions already made by the translators. I mean, J21 is an English source and yet they are not by its usage saying that the New Testament was originally written in English! The J-sources then, only serve to justify their translation, not serve as the basis for it.
This becomes apparent when discussing mundane examples. For example, John 8:44 in the original 1950 release was as follows:
because he is a liar and the father of the lie(a)
(a) the lie, J17; it, ? B Vg
Here we see an example of where "of it" has been made explicit. I doubt any translator would have argued against the NWT that this represents a distortion of the meaning here and some might even translate as the NWT does for clarity. Slight paraphrasing from time to time is sometimes necessary when translating. What is interesting is that the NWT translators felt they needed to explain themselves here and actually look for justification in their textual sources. Yet any textual critic here would judge J17 as a having a paraphrasic reading here to make "of it" explicit and not a real variant as implied by the 1950 NWT footnote which sets one reading against another. It is no wonder that the later revisions handle this much better and box the words "the lie" and say "lit. 'it', and yet they still cite sources, J17, 22, to somehow bring validation to their paraphrase that is wholly unnecessary.
Mebaqqer -
possible-san
Thank you, Mebaqqer.
I have not noticed that material.I cannot understand well why there is not material of "J28" in the English version.
The thing which I can understand is only that this is not translation from the English version.possible
http://bb2.atbb.jp/possible/ -
Earnest
I have obtained the 2nd edition of The New Covenant Commonly Called the New Testament Peshitta Aramaic Text with a Hebrew Translation, which was edited by J. Barclay and M. Pazzini in 2005. Although there are a number of corrections, none of these involve the tetragrammaton. I have checked the list of J28 references provided by Mebaqqer2, as well as the citations, and all but one contain the tetragrammaton.
The incorrect reference is Mark 11:9 as the tetragrammaton actually occurs in Mark 11:10. I think the reason for this is that in the Syriac reading of Mark 11:9,10 both verses contain the phrase "come in the name of the Lord" whereas this is absent in the standard (Greek) reading of verse 10.
The Aramaic text does not contain the tetragrammaton, or an Aramaic equivalent. The tetragrammaton is only in the Hebrew text which is translated from the Aramaic.
Earnest