by Homerovah the Almighty 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
| Matthew 16:28 |
| Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. |
| Mark 9:1 |
| And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. (AV) |
They think that seeing "the son in the kingdom" referes to the transfiguration. The apostles who heard the words qouted above were still alive when the transfiguration took place.
Not defending the teaching, just saying what JWs believe. Blondie or someone else can pull the justification from the WT-CD.
WATCHTOWER EXPLANATION
*** w77 3/1 pp. 159-160 Questions From Readers
What did Jesus mean when he told his apostles that some of them would see him coming in his kingdom before they died?
Today, in the northernmost part of the Golan Heights is the village of Baniyas. That is the location of ancient Caesarea Philippi, where Jesus was when he made a comment that evidently referred to the transfiguration, occurring some days later.
Jesus said: "Truly I say to you that there are some of those standing here that will not taste death at all until first they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."—Matt. 16:28.
Fulfillment of Bible prophecy in our day indicates that Jesus’ presence in Kingdom power began in 1914 C.E. (Matt. 24:3-14; 25:31-33) Obviously, Matthew 16:28 could not refer to this event, for Jesus there spoke of something that would take place before the apostles all died. Then what could that have been?
The Hebrew Scriptures had foretold that the Messiah was to be an everlasting king. (Gen. 49:10; 2 Sam. 7:12-16; Isa. 9:6, 7) Daniel’s vision in particular gave Jews reason to expect the Messiah’s reign to be glorious, powerful, magnificent. (Dan. 2:44; 7:13, 14) But just who was to be this Messianic king, and would he rule from an earthly throne? Even Jesus’ disciples who accepted him as the Messiah could benefit from assurance that he would reign from heaven with power and glory.—Matt. 16:16-22; Acts 1:6.
Accordingly, less than a year before he died Jesus explained that some of the apostles would "see the Son of man coming in his kingdom," or, as Mark phrased it, "see the kingdom of God already come in power." (Matt. 16:28; Mark 9:1) After Jesus was no longer among them, the disciples would be able to draw strength from their having been eyewitnesses of his future heavenly presence in Kingdom power.
But how were Jesus’ words in Matthew 16:25 fulfilled? Often the meaning of a verse is suggested by its context. In this case, all three Gospel accounts of Jesus’ promise about seeing him in his kingdom lead immediately into the record of the transfiguration.
About a week after saying what he did at Matthew 16:28, Jesus took "some of" the apostles (Peter, James and John) up on a lofty mountain, likely Mount Hermon. There he was transfigured to appear in a vision with Moses and Elijah. And God said: "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him."—Luke 9:28-35; Matt. 17:1-5; Mark 9:2-6.
The transfiguration was a vision of Jesus in Kingdom power and heavenly glory, as Peter later confirmed. Referring to the transfiguration, Peter explained that they had thus "become eyewitnesses of his magnificence." He added that in the transfiguration Jesus had "received from God the Father honor and glory." (2 Pet. 1:16-18) So, it appears that when Jesus said that before they died some of the apostles would see him in his kingdom, he was referring to the transfiguration scene that some of them witnessed shortly afterward.
Thanks for the information Blondie, I guess there are numerous interpretations of those Scriptures form select beliefs
Thanks again ..........Homie loves ya
As with many cases of Watchtower and Church teachings, we would have to assume that Jesus was speaking in riddles most of the time with the apostles.
Take the scriptures you listed and compare that with what the Apostle Paul told the Thessalonians in his 1st Letter, Chapter 4 (New American Standard):
If this is interpreted any other way, it means that they all had a false hope and the Apostles were not inspired in their writings.
Fulfillment of Bible prophecy in our day indicates that Jesus’ presence in Kingdom power began in 1914 C.E.
Which of course regulates power into their hands..........intrensionaly both coy and self serving wouldn't you say
What would the Watchtower society be without Jesus's kingdom here on earth, one existence can't be established without the other
Since the scriptures show the dead are really....DEAD, and since Christ said there would be a Day when the dead would come out of the tombs, it should be clear that he wasn't saying no one was going to die anymore- UNTIL that Day!
The transfiguration interpretation is popular in apologetic and evangelical circles (as it avoids the difficulty otherwise posed by the text), but it is rejected by critical scholars who recognize the structure and eschatology of the passage. First of all, the chapter/verse division is misleading because Mark 9:1 really belongs with the preceding Way of the Cross pericope in 8:34-38, not with the Transfiguration narrative in 9:2-13. The preceding verse shows that this coming of the kingdom of God is the parousia: "Whoever is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation will the Son of Man also be ashamed of him, when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels" (8:38). The description of the parousia in Mark 13 is along the same lines:
"At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens" (Mark 13:26-27).
The eschatological discourse in ch. 13, given after the transfiguration, looks ahead to the future judgment (i.e. Judgment Day), and the language is based on Daniel 7 in which the Son of Man figure comes on the clouds to execute judgment on the nations. The same Son of Man language occurs in Mark 14:62, contextualized at Jesus' trial (after the transfiguration in the narrative) which similarly looks ahead to the future (and makes a similar promise that those who knew Jesus would see him return in his parousia): "You will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven". Note also that dunamis "power" occurs in all three texts here, Mark 9:1, 13:26, 14:62, as accompanying the coming of the Son of Man. Third, the language in 9:1 is wholly inappropriate for the transfiguration. It is most unlikely that someone would say with such a solemn expression as "Truly I say to you" that some people listening to him will actually be alive in six days' time. It is hardly unusual by any stretch of the imagination that people listening to Jesus would live longer than a week. Furthermore, the arrival of God's rule "with power" implies things that were not realized in the temporary vision of the glorified Jesus, particularly the judgment of the nations, as the source OT text implies: "He [the "Son of Man"] was given authority, glory and power, all peoples, nations, and men of every language worshipped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed" (Daniel 7:14). The reference to the kingdom of God coming with power is an allusion to this verse. Fourth, the use of Mark 8:38-9:1 by the author of Matthew follows the same understanding:
"For the Son of Man is to come with the angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man for what he has done. Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom" (Matthew 16:27-28).
Notice how this parallel makes the parousia reference more explicit. The addition of a clause referring explicitly to judgment links this passage to such eschatological texts as Matthew 8:11-12, 13:41-43, 18:9, 22:1-13, 24:45-51, 25:24-30, 25:31-46. We read in 13:41, for instance, that "The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil". This scenario is always played out in the judgment scene in 25:31-46. The language here is paralleled also in Revelation 22:12, which relates it to the coming parousia: "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will repay everyone according to what he has done". The Matthean parallel to Mark 9:1 (i.e. Matthew 16:28), moreover, refers to the coming of the Son of Man in his kingdom, linking the two adjacent verses even closer together. Again, in no sense was there a judgment of humanity and delegation of reward and punishment (cf. Matthew 25:46) in the transfiguration.
So in short, it is very important to look at the context but the Society is looking at the wrong context.
Thanks for the information Leolaia interesting stuff
Homey loves you too
