THE EUCHARIST-The "Facts" Behind The Ritual!

by Chalam 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Chalam

  Hi,

  I sometimes go on the WT site to have a look to see what they have to say for themselves. Being a born-again Christian I find some of the stuff make me laugh, some makes me sad and the odd thing makes me mad. Mostly I see insidious deceit in amongst the material presented.

  Anyhow, here is the latest article, no doubt with the "memorial" coming up.

  The Eucharist—The Facts Behind the Ritual

  OK, I just skim read but by the time I got here I started paying more attention.

  Primarily, though, the Lord’s Evening Meal is a communion meal. Those involved are (1) Jehovah God, who arranged for the ransom, (2) Jesus Christ, “the Lamb of God,” who provided the ransom, and (3) Jesus’ spiritual brothers. By partaking of the bread and wine, the latter show that they are fully united with Christ. (John 1:29;1 Corinthians 10:16, 17) They also show that they are in “the new covenant” as spirit-anointed disciples of Jesus. These are the ones who will reign with Christ in heaven as kings and priests.—Luke 22:20; John 14:2, 3;Revelation 5:9, 10.

  So here is what I though.

  1. OK

  2. OK

  3. OK

  What, I agree with the WT on the core doctrine of the bread and wine?

  No, by 3. I was mad!

  Matthew 12:46-51 (New International Version)

  Jesus' Mother and Brothers

  46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."

  48 He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

  Matthew 5:9 (New International Version)

  9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
  for they will be called sons of God.

  Galatians 3:26-28 (New International Version)

  Sons of God

  26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

  John 1:12-13 (New International Version)

  12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

  In short, all who believe in Jesus are in the new covenant and should take the bread and wine. There is zero mention is any of these verses about an "anointed class" or only 144,000-that is a WT false doctrine.

  This one is a pure lie too, even against their own reference!

  These are the ones who will reign with Christ in heaven as kings and priests.

  The verse they quote says this

  R evelation 5:10 (New International Version)

  10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
  and they will reign on the earth."

  The verse says "reign on earth" not in heaven! No-one is going to be up the reigning, not even God because He has come down to earth too.

  Well so much for "the truth" and the "light is getting brighter" :(

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  truthsetsonefree

  Stephen, like yourself I occasionally visit WT's site to see what's new. That Eucharist article about how "mysterious" it is bothered me. Why attack other's beliefs? How can they call anyone's ritual "mysterious" when they have a "celebration" that consists of a somber talk, followed by a passing of bread people are NOT supposed to eat and wine they are NOT supposed to drink, followed by a rush to the exits so the next congo can repeat the process? Further dubs are not supposed to celebrate after with a party of any sort. I mean it's like the pot calling the kettle black!

  Isaac
• 

  Chalam

  Hi Isaac,

  "Why attack other's beliefs?"

  I saw another thread recently and I agree, the WT attacks born-again Christians first and Catholics second because are following what is written in the bible, not JWs.

  1 Corinthians 11:23-25 (New International Version)

  23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me." 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me."

  The main thing is they want to keep you from participating in is actually the new covenant, the bread and wine is just symbolic of this in the physical.

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  wobble

  Thanks Stephen

  I agree all,who believe in the Lord Jesus, should partake,not at a JW Reject Jesus Meeting though.Although it would be funny if 145,000 of us turned up and partook!

  Thanks for reminding us of what Rev.5v10 actually says.The NWT has "over" instead of "on" but in the KIT has underneath the Greek word "upon".

  I think there is a thread on here discussing this further bit of totally dis-honest translation,the Greek word for "over" is very different to the one for "on" or "upon"and "John" would have used it if that is what he meant,even if he wasn't the most elegent of writers in Greek.

  Thanks for your thoughtful and informative posts.

  Love

  Wobble
• 

  Chalam

  Hi Wobble,

  I agree all,who believe in the Lord Jesus, should partake,not at a JW Reject Jesus Meeting though.Although it would be funny if 145,000 of us turned up and partook!

  I think they could run out of bread and wine just like at Corinth! Yes, I agree, the kingdom hall is not the place as it is not in the Kingdom and it is devoid of born-again believers.

  Thanks for reminding us of what Rev.5v10 actually says.The NWT has "over" instead of "on" but in the KIT has underneath the Greek word "upon".

  Once again, it isn't so much the NWT (although I believe it is corrupt at its core) but the teaching from the WT which is totally falsehood.

  I think there is a thread on here discussing this further bit of totally dis-honest translation,the Greek word for "over" is very different to the one for "on" or "upon"and "John" would have used it if that is what he meant,even if he wasn't the most elegent of writers in Greek.

  Yes, so many deceptions in it, from the very subtle (placing of a comma) to the blatant tampering (inserting words to change the meaning etc.).

  Thanks for your thoughtful and informative posts.

  You too. I pray I am not just going ahead on my own steam but the Holy Spirit is doing His work :)

  John 15:5

  Blessings,

  Stephen
• 

  Gladring

  Hi Chalam,

  Just for the interest, were you ever a JW yourself? I mean, have you always been a born-again Christian, or did you become one when you left the JWs?
• 

  Chalam

  Hi Galdring,

  No, never been a JW or never will (by the grace of God). I was raised in a family of born-again Christians and made my covenant with God when I was 7 but turned my back on it for 20 years from the age of about 16 like the proverbial prodigal son. I have been back at my Heavenly Father's house for the last three years or so and love it here! Come and stay-plenty of room :)

  I made a friend a few years back who is a JW and now have some others friends and acquaintances who are "in". I would love to see them all out but I guess that may not happen, and I certainly can't do it myself, I am just praying for them and keeping my ears open to the Holy Spirit and what He prompts. In or out, to me it isn't important, God will make it happen. His plans won't fail. There is only one important thing IMHO and that is to be in His Kingdom.

  I also feel that God gave me my JW friend, not only for my friend's benefit but also mine. I was very hardened to God after 20 years of ignoring Him and there was even more I had to learn about about Jesus. This is a terrible admission but I am afraid true. A little while after coming back to faith I got to the point where I though "God, He's OK but Jesus is a bit cheesy". Now I say there is absolutely no cheese with Jesus! He made the universe and everything in it-how could anyone as awesome as that be cheesy? So, learning about the whole of the WT false doctrine actually got me reading my bible to find out what is true-about Jesus, about the Holy Spirit, about salvation, about grace, about freedom in Christ and death to the law etc.

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  thomas15

  I, like Stephen, I'm born again. My story, that is the path to Christ is different than his and if it be OK I would like to give some background. I have 3 sisters and 2 brothers. Of that clan, one of my sisters is Catholic and the rest are not interested in faith at all. As a kid my mother took us to church, this lasted until I was about 8 years old. The church we attended was a liberal Baptist one.

  During my high school years I attended catholic church for social reasons. The summer after HS, right before I left for college out of state I had a crisis in my life and was befriended by a pastor of a Methodist-like church. This got me thinking. He did not preach to me, rather he made himself available to be a friend when I needed one, a very kind heart. When I arrived at college, I soon decided to find out more about God, so I figured the easiest way to do that would be to buy and read a Bible. This is exactly what I did. In about 4 or 5 months I met students involved in the campus fellowship and was invited to attend. It was through this ministry I heard the Gospel and in Feb of 1977 I placed my faith and trust in Jesus for my salvation.

  Over the years I have gone up and down in my faith. I remember though reading my Bible, this was in the late 80s and thinking to myself if I'm to be consistant in this faith, which is based on the Bible, then shouldn't I believe in my heart that it is truly reliable? If not the Bible, what then could I trust? I decided to just put my total faith in the word and let the chips fall where they will. To this day I have not regreated the decision.

  I'm not very good at witnessing to others. My main interest is in theology and a study of the WT and defending my faith against it is very interesting to me. One thing I believe the Bible teaches is that when a person truly repents and turns to God through Christ, that process in the new believer is all, 100% the work of God. So, I cannot beat my beliefs into the heads of non-believers without God behind it as it is all up to God.

  While I have been "Born Again" for over 30 years, I have had a wide experience with different churches. Not all protestant churches are the same, there is wide variety. In general, my basic requirement is that it must be Bible based and Christ centered. This really narrows down the field. I consider myself Baptist if you need to put a name on it. Right now I attend a Evangelical Free Church but have been at home in others. We moved to PA from NJ in 2004 and it took a few years to find a church home. To be specific about my personal theology, I'm pre-trib, pre-mil Dispensationalist, mildly calvinsitic, although I cannot answer every question. My delight is to study the word and study other theologies and church history. I know quite a bit about various cult teachings and the catholic theology. WT theology and practices are very tough to learn though and that is what I really like about this forum, there is a vast resource here and a lot of knowledgeable folks. My heart goes out to many of you trapped in the system. Faith in God and fellowship with Jesus is described by Paul as "pure joy." No one can tell you to be happy, you either are or you are not. The shame of the WT is that it takes the truth of the Bible and so twists it and ruins lives instead of making lives whole and complete.

  Thank you for reading this and have a great day! Sorry for being so long winded, but that is me.

  Tom
• 

  thomas15

  PS, I appologize for being such a clumsy writer. Stephen mentioned his prodigal son era. I have had mine also and what that points out in my opinion is that everyone who truly believes has to make the commitment by themselves. You know what God can do and how he provides but we think we can provide for ourselves. We cannot do this, only God can. Also like Stephen, God has put a few JWs into my life and a burden for them and I likewise I'm waiting for Him to use me to do His will in their lives.

  Thanks again,

  Tom
• 

  Chalam

  Hi Tom,

  Great to hear your testimony.

  Don't worry about the witnessing, just follow the Spirit, hold Jesus up, "watch and pray" and the rest will follow. Getting a sound biblical theology is a solid base but our testimony is just as important.

  Revelation 12:11 (New International Version)

  11 They overcame him
  by the blood of the Lamb
  and by the word of their testimony

  One thing I believe the Bible teaches is that when a person truly repents and turns to God through Christ, that process in the new believer is all, 100% the work of God. So, I cannot beat my beliefs into the heads of non-believers without God behind it as it is all up to God.

  There are some key passages on this, Romans 8 and Ephesians 1 but for sure, the topic is only really possible to understand fully if we can have the mind of God which we can't. Have a read about John Calvin if you want to get to grips with it Calvinist I watched this recently also, it is nice and easy to follow Predestination

  However, although we are the elect, we need to do our part, put our faith in Jesus, put Him as Lord. It is not a passive thing that we can just sit back and let it all happen. Same with the gospel, we need to be active in sharing our faith, praying etc and let God do the rest.

  In general, my basic requirement is that it must be Bible based and Christ centered.

  I agree. I would add a third prerequisite, the church must exercise the Gifts Of The Spirit-they are vital.

  I am sitting on the trib fence currently and see scriptural evidence for both sides. I believe as the tribulation gets closer it will become clear what is to come. It is like a vehicle come from a far, as it is far away you can tell something is coming but aren't quite sure what it is. As it gets closer is becomes more and more apparent what you are seeing.

  I agree, life is "pure joy" compared to my life before (which was quite sad). Like Jesus said

  John 10:10 (New Century Version)

  10 A thief comes to steal and kill and destroy, but I came to give life—life in all its fullness.

  All the best,

  Stephen