Is there proof somewhere that when a KH is sold...,

by cawshun 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • cawshun
    cawshun

    Is there some place to prove that when a congregation donates time, work, materials, ect... to build a KH, that when it get's sold the money goes to the WTS corporation and not back to the congregation that built it through donations?

  • Bonnie_Clyde
    Bonnie_Clyde

    All I know is that a congregation about 40 miles from us was sold three years ago, all funds were sent to the Society, they purchased some land to build a new hall, but it's been three years now. The Society has all the money. The publishers have to travel about 10 miles to a neighboring town and share another KH. No sign of building is in sight. Maybe they would get the money back from the Society if and when they do.

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    :Is there proof somewhere that when a KH is sold.

    This question has been asked and answered before, but without totally certainty. The best I can get from the answers are: some are and some aren't. When I was a dub, a corporation was formed with (usually) the local elders being officers in the corporation. The corporation held the Kingdom Hall as an asset. When the Kingdom Hall was paid for and later sold, the proceeds went to the Corporation and were then used to buy land and materials for construction.

    It's quite a different matter when the WTS holds the mortgage. The WTS routinely loans money at a very reasonable interest rate to build Kingdom Halls. If such a Hall is sold, the mortage must first be retired from the proceeds. This practice of course, makes the WTS no better than any other Banker who does the same thing.

    On the other hand, I've heard people say that the WTS "encourages" congregations to "donate" all profits from the sale of a KH to them. Perhaps such "donations" are entirely optional. I don't know. I'm sure many dubs are convinced that the more money they give to their religious masters, the more holes God will punch in their tickets to eternal salvation.

    Perhaps the WTS just holds KH proceeds and invests it to earn money on it until the Congregation is ready to build another one. At that time, maybe the money is returned.

    So, I guess I'm still as confused as you are!

    Farkel

  • blondie
    blondie

    It's a matter of understanding what is meant by sending the money to the WTS. Some congregations deposit their money there for investing but not as a permanent donation. When a KH is sold there is no requirement to send it to the WTS. The congregation that holds the territory the KH is on is a non-profit corporation holding trust over the property and building. Only when that congregation is dissolved does the parent non-profit organization the WTS then hold trust over it. These are the US laws governing non-profit corporations. I have seen many congregations resist donating to the WTS when "encouraged" by the CO to do so. There are no legal means by which the WTS can compel the congregation. Of course, headquarters can "encourage" them but the individual congregations aren't that "obedient."

  • cawshun
    cawshun

    Thanks for the information everyone, I really appreciate it!

  • BabaYaga
    BabaYaga
  • Ultimate Reality
    Ultimate Reality

    Our Hall passed a resolution based on the Society's review of the Congregation's articles of incorporation. It was resolved to change the dissolution clause so that if the Congregation is ever liquidated, the proceeds for the sale of the property automatically goes to the WTS.

    This "suggestion" was based on the WTS legal department's review. Of course, the local congregation did not retain their own counsel for legal advice in this matter.

    The Society has a form that the Elders fill out to disclose the ownership arrangements and then the Society provides their advice on the adjustments to make. This seems to be a systematic way of ensuring that all assets eventually end up in the hands of the WTS.

  • BabaYaga
    BabaYaga

    This just in! Gringojj just posted a very interesting tidbit on this subject...

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/173175/1/Kingdom-Hall-Mortgages-Interesting-Info

    He has a great idea, that of looking up the addresses in the property records online (many counties now have this available.) Of course, this will not tell if the money from any sale of a KH was sent to the WTBTS, only who owned the property.

  • cawshun
    cawshun

    Great Information, thanks everyone, so appreciated!

    cawshun

  • SnakesInTheTower
    SnakesInTheTower

    Two forms of KH ownership....trustee and corporation... the trustees are almost always elders (in the early days non-elders were trustees esp if they contributed a lot to the KH).... in corporations the "officers" always are elders. The Society, via its GB appointed mouthpiece the CO, will always strongly encourage the trustees or officers to change the legal paperwork to send the money to the Society if the congo dissolves or the KH is sold. And the non-elder trustees (in the case of elders that are deleted or DF) to resign and appoint elders as trustees in their place. The average rank and file in a Trustee congregation has no idea of this except in the rare case of change in trustees...in corporations, the congo has to have a meeting once a year to elect trustees (legal matter), and consider "corporate" business...same reason the Society has the Annual Meeting..strictly meeting a legal requirement ..and makes a nice brain wash session up at bethel to invite people to...

    The paperwork now says that the trustee must be an elder in good standing...at least that is what the trustee paperwork I last seen said..and that was the last proceedure I seen before being deleted as an elder and walking away.

    One congo in my old circuit was sold with the intent that the funds be used for a new KH elsewhere in the circuit...last I checked...not only was that never done, but several KHs were sold in this area (2 circuits) and all of the money went to the Society and the congos merged.

    things may have changed..i havent been an elder now for over 2 years... wow.... time flies when I am having fun...

    Snakes ()

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