I was not associated with this "organization" until the age of about 19 when I was dating my current wife. She was df'ed for the 1st couple of a years that we were together and that’s when my intense resentment started. I gave in to her BS after hearing the overwhelming fear from her about the generation that was about to end and how she had to get reinstated because she is just the happiest person when she's a witness. Since that day I have experienced 13 yrs of declining happiness, guilt, irrational behavior towards myself and our kids, convenient memory loss on previous doctrine changes and what has happened to logical thinking? I have never had any interest in religion because at an early age I couldn't differentiate the Bible stories with other fairy tales I had heard, they made me think that all these people had "sucker" written on their forehead. Anyway, I had not objected to my wife bringing our kids to meetings, conventions, "special" talks, etc. for the 1st 10yrs and even helped her get them ready. All I heard was how I should come because this circus over seeker was in town and he is "good". We started to spend more time with people in her family (all witnesses) so I thought that out of respect for my wife and her family I would go to a convention. That is where it started - Oh since you came to the convention you can come to the memorial. Oh since you came to the memorial you can come to watch one of our kids do a bible reading. Oh since you came for the bible reading you can come watch me as a "householder". WTF with all of the special words and titles by the way? I had had enough! I pulled my 2 youngest kids out cold turkey which was the best thing for them. Neither of them want to go back. Since then I have stepped up my opposition and let my wife and kids know how I feel about it. This religion has driven a wedge between my family big time. I am at my wits end and need some advice from other people that may be in a similar situation. Thanks.
Surrounded 24/7
by Skip it 8 Replies latest jw friends
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rebel8
(( ))
I am not in a similar situation but I was a child in a "divided household".
I was commanded not to "give a bad witness" to my "unbelieving" parent so I was constantly told what to tell him--"I am going to Bethel," "I love field service," and assorted other lies. I did this because 1) I'd get physically punished by my jw mother if I didn't, and 2) I half-believed that I'd be struck by Jehoho's Holy Lightning and Avian Air Force of Eye-Eaters if I didn't.
I very much longed for my dad to "oppose" and was very depressed when he stopped "opposing". I daydreamed about them getting a divorce and the judge (Caesar's law) ordering me to live only w/him...Jehoho couldn't blame me for not going to meetings then. I realized I'd be living in a tiny apartment but I dreamt about it all the time......what it would be like to have normal friends, go to a dance, or do after-school activities.
Although I was stressed when my parents argued, I was secretly thrilled and hoping it would lead to my chains being broken.
I told my dad this when I was in my 20s and he was brought to tears. He had no idea that I felt this way at all. He really thought I was Bethel-bound.
Of course I've no idea what your kids are thinking, and I'm not suggesting you end your marriage, but I thought I'd share this with you FWIW. Kids learn how to play the Borg games.
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drew sagan
Over and over again Witnesses are told that the best thing they possibly can do is model their behavior around the activities prescribed to the by the Watchtower Society.
At its core the Watchtower functions as a behavioral device. What do Witnesses really want from a person when the go door to door? Is it to instruct people to believe everything they do? Possibly. But it never ends at belief, does it? They just don't show up at your house, teach you a new set of beliefs, and then go on their way. Rather they follow the structure that you just defined. Meeting by meeting, activity by activity they seek to get you involved in 100% of all activity that is dictated by the Watchtower. A person does not have to believe anything the Watchtower teaches but if they go about the activities prescribed by the Watchtower individual JWs will think the person is one of them, and thus accept them.
I'm of the opinion that as long as you understand how the Watchtower system functions it can be rather benign. The way the watchtower really can be harmful when individuals are ignorant as to how it is heavily influencing their lives. If you don't believe watchtower leaders are chosen by god then they really hold no special power over you, which is what can really be problematic. Your wife however, is under such influence.
Witnesses will always see you as another "potential member". Might as well get used to that. Whether or not you come to some sort of compromise with your wife is up to you. I understand that the JWs enthusiasm to convert people to their lifestyle can make compromise rather difficult. -
no more kool aid
Welcome. You have a vantage point that many of us born in's do not. Don't let her do this to your kids. You said at the beginning of the thread how your wife was DF'ed when you met her and you saw her guilt and despair. Can you imagine your poor children going through this in a couple of years? I am a rational adult and have done nothing but think about my departure for about a year now and I had guilt feelings and a sleepless night because of the memorial. However my younger kids (born in) didn't even notice and hopefully yours won't either, if you don't let them get too entrenched. Keep reading on this forum how different spouses have taken various approaches to getting out, hopefully you can make some changes in the way she thinks. Read Steve Hassan's books and Crisis of Conscience. Best of luck to you, hope to hear more. NMKA
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Quandry
I pulled my 2 youngest kids out cold turkey which was the best thing for them. Neither of them want to go back. Since then I have stepped up my opposition and let my wife and kids know how I feel about it. This religion has driven a wedge between my family big time. I am at my wits end and need some advice from other people that may be in a similar situation. Thanks.
I hope your children are not feeling "pulled" in the middle of all of this. Calm down, and think about this. Your wife is indoctrinated since a child that this organization is the only truth, and has the support of her family. She isn't doing anything to hurt you personally.
You will not win by force. You will, however, entrench your wife and her family even further, and create a battle zone in which the kids are the pawns. I know this is hard to hear, but doesn't your wife have a right to practice religion as she sees fit or do you consider yourself ruler of your house and all are under your control? You do not have to go to meetings.
Why not read some threads posted here where some helped their family out, first by educating themselves about the history of the WTBTS and then by showing kindness, patience and love, and discussing the things they'd learned together with their families?
Don't enlarge the wedge by being "hard-nosed." If you "win" the argument by force, what have you won? Take the children from their mother? Tension in your house? Divorce?
By the way, I was "in" for over thirty years, husband an elder for twenty. Been married for 38 years and have a daughter that is 21. We are all out now. I have seen alot in life, and seen successful and unsuccessful marriages, and good decisions and bad and the effects on families.
Please just have patience and reasonableness. Obviously, since so many of us are on this forum and we no longer believe the information coming from the WTS, it can be done.
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garybuss
You wrote: "This religion has driven a wedge between my family big time."
I found if I'm married to a believing Jehovah's Witness, I don't have a family. The Watch Tower Corporation has the family. All I have are conditions and rules so I can play second place in my own home. Second place to a book business. Sorry, I'm not up for that. Been there, done that. If my wife prefers a book business to me, they damn well better be willing to support her, cause I'm not gonna.
The whole story is it's not a religion problem. It's a marriage problem. For me, life's too short to have even one bad day. -
carla
(sorry for length)
I too am a ubm and have never allowed my kids anywhere near a khell. It would truly be over my dead body for them to step foot in one. My jw joined up later in life and it caused enormous strife in our house. He has changed profoundly since becoming a jw. I will never understand how many ex jw's will say that it isn't the worse thing in the world if the kids are jw's, yet they will tell their own stories how their parents, siblings, etc.. now shun them, threw them out of the house for not believing, physically hurt them so they wouldn't go to college, were sexually abused and threatened if they wished to tell others in the cong about a pedophile, how their childhoods were taken from them due to being a jw, how they feel socially 'retarded' because of growing up a witness, the sad stories of those who allowed or made the decision to let a family member die from lack of blood, and the list goes on and on into infinity. Do what you must to protect your children from this dangerous and deadly cult.
In our house we have come to a truce of sorts and try to ignore the giant pink elephant in the room. His abandoment for all things jw has resulted in resentment on all our parts. The kids resent many things in their lives he has missed because he was busy with jw stuff. There are giant milestones in their lives that they will never forgive his absence, they still love him but respect? not so much. His silent protests (refusing to stand for national anthem & flag) when he did show up at school functions were a source of embarrassment for them. His joining this cult basically destroyed every family tradition we had. I carry on as always but of course something is missing, their dad, the old dad that cared and knew what was going on their lives.
My kids are now quite educated in cults and the scandals of the wt. I did not make them read anything, they were free to research on their own and they did. His dishonesty about anything to do with the jw's was quite evident even to kids. Once the dust settled and while he was at meetings I would often be on this board or another ex jw board and make a comment or two about a poster who was having difficulty. They were particulary intersted in Richie's story when all that was happening. The lengths jw parents went to to keep kids going into pioneering or even to meetings (example- one girls parents bought her a car to keep her going to meetings) or to keep them from going to college was quite interesting to my kids. They were also quite intersted in all the unwritten silly rules such as the smurfs, no Lucky Charms, clothing, hair, people who could only play Barbie if they played her going into fs, the spying of family members & elders, shunning of children by parents, etc..
It is not persecution to show that religion is false. And that comment is straight out of wt. You would not be 'persecuting' their mother if show them all the scandals, flip flops, scholarly dishonesty, etc.... You may want to do a quick search about Christians who really are or have been persecuted for their faith like getting their heads chopped off, etc... simply disagreeing is not persecution.
Some ubm's cannot remain in the marriage and end up divorcing, others feel if they leave the jw's will have even more inflluence and by staying at least they can conrtrol some things in the kids life on a daily basis and try to teach critical thinking, for others; hope springs eternal and they hope & pray their spouse will see the light and leave and they can have an intact and healed family. I know a few ubm's who say they are 'out of there' as soon as the last kid turns 18, they liken it to a prison sentence of sorts. Sad.
While I agree you will not reach your wife with anger & fights, (by the way, don't use the c word on her, once you let the word 'cult' out it's pretty much all over and they will not discuss with you much anymore if at all) you can't reach them by hitting them over the head with everything about the wt. Where I do disagree with some on the board is where children are involved, if she insists they go to meetings there is no reason you can't insist they learn about the religions of the world and take them to Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, etc... some will find that extreme but it was the ONLY way I had to keep my kids from a kh at one point. He feared all those other religions more than leaving them home and being non jw's. Now they just get to be destroyed at the big A along with everyone else he knows! aint' life grand?
I wish you well and hope you two can keep the lines of communication open. Protect the kids. If you are looking to research on this site you may want to try looking for old ubm (unbelieving mates) threads. All the best, carla
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Mrs. Fiorini
An earlier poster mentioned Steven Hassan's books. I especially recommend Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves. He is a former member of the Moonies and has since become an expert on cults and how they operate.
He has developed a strategy on how to help your loved ones out of a cult without alienating them. He tells the stories of several JW families, showing what worked and what didn't. It's an excellent resource. If you can't find it in a bookstore, you can order from the FreeMinds website.
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Skip it
Thank you for all of your comments. It is nice to read some other peoples experiences and constructive advice. I thought that I would expand a little. Quandary’s comment made me stop and think a bit. The part that is highlighted might be over analyzed. My children do not feel pulled. Just the opposite, they were pulled to meetings basically without choice. At this point 2 out of 3 choose not to go. My opposition is due to educating myself and wanting what is best for my kids. I have basically thrown in the towel trying to help my wife see what a lot of you have. I have read crisis of conscious and many other articles and experiences on the internet. I will be reading Steven Hassan's books thanks to this post. The diffi”cult” thing to understand for some is that if you have not been “in” you do not have that connection or understanding of what the other person is really feeling. I liken it to a drug addict. My line in the sand came after 10 + years of dancing around the subject softly. That was the entrenchment. Sometimes it just doesn’t work that way. As for she is not doing anything to me personally – what do you consider personally when it’s your spouse? Taking a backseat to all things watchtower is personal in my opinion. I do not consider myself “ruler” nor do I want to be ruled. (17 + yrs of this B.S.) Thanks again.