JWs on truth serum

by aChristian 7 Replies latest jw friends

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  aChristian

  Good Morning! We are Jehovah's Witnesses. And we are here this morning to bring you some "good news."

  It is not, however, the "good news" which was preached by the apostles as recorded in the pages of the New Testament. Rather, we are here to tell you that those who now accept Jesus Christ as their Lord are not God's sons; are not Christ's brothers; do not have Jesus Christ as their mediator; are not fully forgiven for their sins; are not fully reconciled to God; are not declared righteous by God; are not a part of the body of Christ; are not allowed to partake of the symbols of Christ's body and blood; will never become incorruptible; will never be given immortality; are not born again; are not anointed by God's Holy Spirit; are not baptized by God's Holy Spirit; will not rule with Christ during the millennium; will not be part of the first resurrection; and are not a part of Christ's New Covenant.

  You see, all those things which the apostles preached as good news stopped being offered to people by God in the year 1935. We know this is true because the Watchtower Society's president at that time, J. F. Rutherford, the same man who said that the world would definitely end in the year 1925, said it is true.

  But don't worry. For we now have a different "good news" to offer you. We are here to tell you that if you now fully submit yourself to the spiritual authority of the Watchtower Society and do all the Watchtower Society tells you to do, including spending all your free time going door to door distributing Watchtower publications, you can survive the battle of Armageddon, which only Jehovah's Witnesses will survive, and will then have a pretty good chance of living forever on a paradise earth.

  But only "a pretty good chance" of then living forever. For, as we mentioned earlier, you will never be given immortality. So, your only chance of really living forever is to first work very hard during Christ's thousand year reign to bring yourself to a state of "human perfection." Then, after doing so, you must resist the attacks of Satan the devil which God will subject you to at the end of those thousand years. If you do not then successfully resist Satan's attacks you will then be destroyed by God. And, as we know from reading the story of Adam and Eve, even perfect humans do not always successfully resist Satan's attacks.

  So, you are not actually assured of eternal life even after a thousand years of hard work. But if you do then successfully resist Satan's attacks you will then have a real good chance to live forever. But only "a real good chance" to live forever, because even then in order to remain alive you will have to maintain perfect faithfulness to God every day for all eternity. But since, as we mentioned earlier, you will not then be incorruptible, you will then every day for all eternity be fully capable of sin. And, since eternity is a long time, and since you will all during eternity be corruptible, you might sometime during eternity become unfaithful to God in some way.

  But don't worry. Jehovah will never allow his new paradise earth to be spoiled by sin. So, if and when you do become unfaithful to Jehovah in any way after the thousand years have ended he will then destroy you instantly.

  We hope you have enjoyed our "good news." Oh, one more thing. Please pay no attention to what the apostle Paul wrote in Galatians 1:8 and 9. You know, where he said that anyone who preaches a "good news" different from that which the apostles themselves preached will be eternally condemned.
• 

  Will Power

  SIDEBAR
  aC
  quick note
  Thank you for your detailed reply to one of my posts, sorry I've forgotten the title, I'm sure you remember. I wasn't able to reply at the time.
  I kind of have to sneak my peeks in here, my freedom of "rea ch" has been curtailed.
  Hope to have more time next week
  Thanks again
  Question
  If a JW met Jesus Christ in person according to watchtower doctrine would they show him worship?
  Prostrate themselves?
  Call him: Lord of Lords?
  King of Kings?
  Everlasting Father?
  Wonderful Counsellor?
  First & Last?
  Emmanuel?
  ...I know there are more.
  If the answer they have is yes, BUT not...
  that is not "good news"

  W
• 

  Erich

  aChristian:
  
  

  We hope you have enjoyed our "good news." Oh, one more thing. Please pay no attention to what the apostle Paul wrote in Galatians 1:8 and 9. You know, where he said that anyone who preaches a "good news" different from that which the apostles themselves preached will be eternally condemned.

  
  
  Sorry.
  Most of all you have mentioned is topic and part of the book of revelation, and have nothing to do with "JW's special belief" etc. It's a part of of the Holy Bible, we cannot change it. We have to contemplate, and to try to understand. What we do not understand 2001, we will understand later. That's all we can do.
  
  Or is (in your opinion) the book of revelation not consistent with the belief of apostle Paul? As a consequence, God would have to condemn the author of the book revelation (John)...
  
  

  ... since you will all during eternity be corruptible, you might sometime during eternity become unfaithful to God in some way..

  
  
  Yes, of course! Human being have been created with a free will!
  Please contemplate and consider as follows:
  
  If you (as constructor and engineer) would go to produce an autonome electronic robot with a "free will", you would be forced to give him an operation manual ("rules") and a sensorium and a mind to read the text. Then you have do a test run to find out if the robot really complies with the RULES (otherwise e.g. the robot could come in conflict with other "autonome robots", who are working in the neighborhood ..)
  
  All these precautions must fulfilled if the robot is indeed an "autonome" one.
  Please ask informatics and robot specialists: A robot doesn't necessarily need a "fix installed program" (It could be equipped with sensorium to find its "program" by itself) - but if automome and having "free will", THEN IT HAS TO COMPLY WITH RULES !
  
  It's so easy, but some people do not understand that...
• 

  aChristian

  Erich,

  You wrote: Most of all you have mentioned is topic and part of the book of revelation, ... It's a part of of the Holy Bible, we cannot change it. ... Or is (in your opinion) the book of revelation not consistent with the belief of apostle Paul? As a consequence, God would have to condemn the author of the book revelation (John).

  The book of Revelation is highly symbolic and can be interpreted in many different ways. The New Testament plainly states that all Christians have the same "one hope." (Eph. 4:4,5) Thus, any interpretation of Revelation which creates two classes of Christians with two different hopes, with one class possessing mortal bodies and corruptible minds both during and after Christ's millennium reign, must be an incorrect interpretation.

  The JW two classes of Christians doctrine is based almost entirely on their interpretation of Revelation chapter 7. But as you know, Revelation is filled with symbolisms including many symbolic numbers. The number 144,000 is almost certainly one of them. Notice that in Rev. 7 John does not see two groups of people. He first hears a number. He then sees a great crowd which no one is able to number. I believe the number he hears applies symbolically to the crowd of people he then sees, a crowd made up of all people who accept Jesus Christ as their Lord prior to the time of His return.

  With these things in mind, there exists no reason for anyone to now preach a good news different from the good news preached by the apostles. Especially so, since Paul specifically forbid doing so. (Gal.1:8,9)
• 

  aChristian

  Will,

  Would JWs call him their "Mighty God"? (Isaiah 9:6) Forget all their babble about "Jesus is only called mighty, not almighty." (By the way, Jehovah is called the Jews' "Mighty God" in the very next chapter of Isaiah, 10:21.) Do you know any one of Jehovah's Witnesses who would ever stand up and proudly proclaim, "Jesus Christ is our Mighty God."? No? But Isaiah 9:6 says, "He will be called ... Mighty God." If JWs are really God's people we must conclude that Isaiah the prophet was a false prophet. Why? Because JWs do not "call" Jesus Christ their "Mighty God."
• 

  Will Power

  Exactly
  Even more denial of the Christ where it comes to "Eternal Father." (Is 9:6)
  Who alone is the Father? Surely it is not Michael the Archangel!
• 

  Erich

  aChristian:
  
  You don't think of a possibility to reach eternal life here on earth? And no possibility of a change to a new and righteous World Order?
  
  If one do believe THAT, one also HAS TO believe, that there are two groups of saved people. (You nevertheless are right with your opinion the book of revelation is full with higher symbolic. But what is real, remains to be real.)
• 

  aChristian

  Erich,

  You wrote: You don't think of a possibility to reach eternal life here on earth? ...
  If one do believe THAT, one also HAS TO believe, that there are two groups of saved people.

  I think your belief may spring from the Watchtower's teachings that God will soon kill everyone on earth except true Christians and that during the millennium Christians will rule "over the earth" from "heaven." But does the Bible really teach those things?

  First of all, it is quite possible that when Christ returns He will judge only the Christian world. Two-thirds of the earth's population has never even heard the good news of Jesus Christ, including billions of people in lands like China and India. The Watchtower Society teaches that God will soon kill all of these people. I think they are wrong. This does not sound like the God of love, justice and mercy I worship.

  One thing that leads me to believe this is an incorrect understanding of scripture is that that the Bible tells us that "Judgment begins with the house of God." (1 Peter 4:17) Jesus also said those who will rule as kings with Him will "judge the 12 tribes of Israel." (Luke 22:30) To me this indicates that when Christ returns and draws all true Christians to Himself (Matt. 24:31), they will then determine who among those who have heard the good news of Jesus Christ and not taken it to heart are deserving of death. "The 12 tribes of Israel," spoken of in Luke 22:30, I believe refers to all those who have heard the good news preached by those whom Galatians 6:16 calls "the Israel of God." Remember, the literal "12 tribes of Israel" had all heard the Law of Moses, but few had taken it to heart.

  Remember too that it was only the city of Jerusalem that was destroyed in 70 AD, not the entire Roman empire, after those in Jerusalem who heeded Christ's words of warning had escaped. And First Century Jerusalem has long been understood to picture the Christian world, or as Jehovah's Witnesses call it, "Christendom." Also to be considered is a fact known by most serious students of the Bible, history and science. The flood of Noah's day was a local event, not a global one. God brought that judgment only upon a land that had heard the message of "Noah, a preacher of righteousness," and failed to respond to it. (2 Pet. 2:5) God did not take the lives of those in other parts of then widely populated earth who had not heard Noah's preaching.

  Interestingly, Revelation chapters 8 and 9 talk quite a bit about "a third of the world"
  being judged. And by population, the part of the world claiming Christianity as its religion is almost exactly one-third. (See The World Almanac 1998, page 654) If this understanding is correct, that Christ is returning to judge only the Christian world, then Christians, who all have the same "one hope," will then have plenty of people to rule over as they serve as kings with Christ for 1,000 years. And they will also then have plenty of people to help come to know the true God as they serve as His "priests." For that is, after all, what priests do.

  The Bible does not tell us exactly what will happen in the future. Because it does not, the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, and my own beliefs on this subject matter, can only be considered speculation. However, I believe that you should be aware of the fact that there are other ways to understand God's clearly stated intentions to have the meek inherit the earth (Ps. 37:11), and His intentions to have all Christians rule with Christ for 1,000 years, than to change the good news preached by the apostles which offered the same "one hope" to all Christians. (Eph.4:4-6)

  By the way, most translations of the Bible tell us that even those who serve as kings and priests with Christ will do so, "on the earth," not "over the earth," as the NWT says. (Rev. 5:10) If this is the correct translation of the Greek, then "heaven" for Christians during the millennium may simply represent a position of spiritual authority, not a physical location. The NWT is nearly alone in translating Rev. 5:10 as, "over the earth" rather than "on the earth." It does so, I believe, to support the Watchtower Society's two classes of Christians doctrine.