[Box on page 46, 47]
"LISTEN TO COUNSEL AND ACCEPT DISCIPLINE"Satan's spirit-his rebellious, contentious attitude-fills today's world. The Bible thus refers to Satan as "the ruler of the authority of the air" and mentions the resulting "spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience." (Ephesians 2:2) Many today want to be completely independent of the authority of others. Sadly, that spirit of independence has even infected some in the Christian congregation. For example, an elder may offer some kindly counsel on the dangers of immoral or violent entertainment, but some may resist or even resent the counsel. Each of us needs to apply the words of Proverbs 19:20: "Listen to counsel and accept discipline, in order that you may become wise in your future."
"...spirit of independence has even infected some in the Christian congregation." This really means they don't want people thinking for themselves. Despite God giving them a brain, such ones become like Satan!
What can help us in this regard? Consider three common reasons why people resist counsel or discipline, and then note the Scriptural viewpoint.
? "I don't think the counsel was appropriate." We may feel that the counsel does not really fit our circumstances or that the one giving it did not grasp the whole picture. Our immediate reaction might even be to belittle the counsel. (Hebrews 12:5) Since we are all imperfect, is it not possible that our own view of the matter is what needs adjusting? (Proverbs 19:3) Was there not some valid reason for the counsel to be given? Then that is what we need to focus on. God's Word advises us: "Take hold on discipline; do not let go. Safeguard it, for it itself is your life."-Proverbs 4:13.
If only Brooklyn would follow their own advice "is it not possible that our own view of the matter is what needs adjusting?" and make changes when errors are pointed out to them.
http://www.607v587.com/websitepage4.htm
http://www.ajwrb.org/watchtower/index.shtml
http://www.watchtowerletters.com/Home.html
? "I don't like the way the counsel was given." Granted, God's Word sets a high standard for the way counsel should be given. (Galatians 6:1) However, the Bible also says: "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) The only way that we can ever receive perfect counsel delivered in just the right way is to receive it from a perfect person. (James 3:2) Jehovah uses imperfect humans to counsel us, so it is wise to avoid focusing on the way the counsel is given. Look, rather, to the content of the counsel, and prayerfully consider how to apply it.
Unfortunately, it's not what you say but how you say it
? "He is in no position to counsel me!" If we think that personal faults in the counselor invalidate his counsel, we need to remember the points noted above. Likewise, if we think that our age, experience, or responsibilities in the congregation somehow put us above counsel, we need to readjust our thinking. In ancient Israel, the king had great responsibilities, yet he had to accept counsel from prophets, priests, and others who were among his subjects. (2 Samuel 12:1-13; 2 Chronicles 26:16-20) Today, Jehovah's organization appoints imperfect men to offer counsel, and mature Christians gladly accept it and apply it. If we have greater responsibilities or experience than others do, we should be even more conscious of the need to set an example in reasonableness and humility by accepting counsel and applying it.-1 Timothy 3:2, 3; Titus 3:2.
Wonder if they think of themselves when saying "...if we think that our age, experience, or responsibilities in the congregation somehow put us above counsel, we need to readjust our thinking."
Where is the proof that they are "Jehovah's organization"?
Imperfect fallible men who are not inspired, "appoint" other "imperfect men to offer counsel" which may be wrong because its based on some interpretation, speculation or manipulation of what the Bible actually doesn't say, but MATURE "...Christians gladly accept it and apply it"!!!
Clearly, none of us is above counsel. So let us be resolved to accept counsel readily, apply it obediently, and thank Jehovah heartily for this lifesaving gift. Counsel really is an expression of Jehovah's love for us, and we want to remain in God's love.-Hebrews 12:6-11.
Disgusting how they thrust Jehovah into the picture here when the counsel offered usually is not directly outlined in the Bible for a Christian, but requires mental gymnastics for one to reach the Brooklyn interpretation/standard eg no beards, "we can only accept blood fractions", "can you do more in service", "punctuality at the meeting is important", birthdays are pagan etc
BOX on page 48, 49 - "BE OBEDIENT TO THOSE WHO ARE TAKING THE LEAD"In ancient Israel, there was an urgent need for organization. Moses alone could not oversee millions of people traveling together in a dangerous wilderness. What did he do? "Moses proceeded to choose capable men out of all Israel and to give them positions as heads over the people, as chiefs of thousands, chiefs of hundreds, chiefs of fifties and chiefs of tens."-Exodus 18:25.
What parallel can the Christian arrangement have with "...ancient Israel"
In the Christian congregation today, there is a similar need for organization. That is why a book study group has an overseer, a congregation has elders, a group of congregations has a circuit overseer, a group of circuits has a district overseer, and a country has a Country Committee or a Branch Committee. Because of this organization, each man acting as a shepherd is able to pay close attention to Jehovah's sheep assigned to his care. Such shepherds are accountable to Jehovah and to Christ.-Acts 20:28.
Does the word "organization" appear in the Bible?
"...a book study group has an overseer" - Hasn't the "book study group" been replaced with the "Congregation Bible Study"?
Where does the Bible speak that Christians should subject themselves to any "organization"?
This organizational arrangement calls for each of us to be obedient and submissive. Never would we want to have the attitude of Diotrephes, who had no respect for those taking the lead in his day. (3 John 9, 10) Rather, we want to heed the words of the apostle Paul, who wrote: "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over your souls as those who will render an account; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you." (Hebrews 13:17) Some obey when they agree with the direction coming from those taking the lead but refuse to submit when they disagree with the direction or cannot see the reason for it. Keep in mind, though, that being submissive can include the idea that we obey even when we are not inclined to do so. Each of us, then, does well to ask himself, 'Am I obedient and submissive to those taking the lead over me?'
Obedient to Jesus as the head of the congregation or to imperfect men "appointed" by the WTS?
Of course, God's Word does not spell out every arrangement or procedure needed to help the congregation function. Yet, the Bible does say: "Let all things take place decently and by arrangement." (1 Corinthians 14:40) The Governing Body obeys this direction by putting in place various helpful procedures and guidelines that ensure the smooth and orderly operation of the congregation. Responsible Christian men do their part by setting an example of obedience as they put such arrangements into effect. They also show themselves "reasonable, ready to obey" those placed in oversight. (James 3:17) Thus, each book study, congregation, circuit, district, and country is blessed with a united, orderly body of believers who reflect well on the happy God.-1 Corinthians 14:33; 1 Timothy 1:11.
What a twisting of scriptures to suit their agenda!
On the other hand, Paul's words found at Hebrews 13:17 also highlight why a disobedient spirit is harmful. It may cause those in positions of responsibility to do their work "with sighing." What should be considered a privilege of sacred service can feel like a burden when a brother must deal with an uncooperative, rebellious spirit in the flock. In turn, damage results "to you," the entire congregation. Of course, there is yet another form of damage that results when a person refuses to submit to theocratic order. It hurts his spirituality if he is too proud to submit, putting distance between him and his heavenly Father. (Psalm 138:6) Let us all, then, be determined to remain obedient and submissive.
Seriously, was Paul in Hebrews really referring to WTS "appointed" elders who are governed by a centralized body in Brooklyn who claim to be Gods mouthpiece on the earth?
What does Psalm 138:6 have to do with the Christian congregation/arrangement?
Congregation Bible Study Comments - Week Commencing 4 May 2009
by LUKEWARM 5 Replies latest jw friends
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LUKEWARM
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Bonnie_Clyde
Thanks for your posts. I finally got a copy of this book. I'm sure they wouldn't want the general public to see this! It's hard to believe, but I went along with this type of reasoning for years.
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WTWizard
I wonder how my not obeying the hounders could possibly damage the whole congregation. Suppose the hounder tells me to do something that is obviously inappropriate, blatantly unscriptural, contradicts earlier counsel, or is bad for the whole congregation and society at large. Now, I wonder how disobeying that counsel could possibly be damaging, unless the hounder starts cracking down on everything and making things difficult for everyone else.
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insearchoftruth
Which book are they studying now??? Is there a scan available?
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LUKEWARM
The book is “Keep Yourselves In God's Love”
Try this link for the download
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/160479/1/2008-Keep-Yourselves-In-Gods-Love-PDF
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Thanks for posting and comments, lukewarm. The first box starts out with severely flawed logic.
"Many today want to be completely independent of the authority of others. Sadly, that spirit of independence has even infected some in the Christian congregation."
People today want independence from bad authority. History is full of revolutions, but when has anybody ever said, "This government is so good and fair and we have such nice houses and plenty to eat... we need to start a civil war!"? No, it's when the authority is cruel, abusive, tyrannical, and just plain bad that the peasants grab their pitchforks and revolt.
Who says, "This boss I have is so fair and considerate, and the company is so generous and reliable... that I QUIT!" No, it's rarely a case of people wanting total independence from all authority, people want BETTER authority. Quess what? The authority in the CCJW is another bad authority. Peasants, grab those pitchforks and track down those elders, it's time for a revolution.
The writing is pretty bad here in these boxes, even for Botchtower. I'm not sure they ever used the phrase "scriptural counsel" even, just "counsel". Obviously, when the elders only appeal to their personal authority as having been appointed by the Governing Body, the counsel doesn't need to include any scriptural reasoning.
"In the Christian congregation today, there is a similar need for organization."
Funny how "the Christian congregation today" has a completely different hierarchy than Paul described in the first century at 1 Cor. 11:3 "The head of every man is the Christ." Hmmm, Paul didn't seem to know anything about any "Governing Body" or "Circuit Overseers" or such-like crap that really should have been inserted between Christ and man. I'm sure they're working on a New "As It Was Supposed To Be" Translation that will have the appropriate insertions.
"Of course, God's Word does not spell out every arrangement or procedure needed to help the congregation function. Yet, the Bible does say: "Let all things take place decently and by arrangement.""
Check the context, in 1 Cor. there, he was talking about everybody in the congregations wanting to prophecy and speak in tongues all at the same time. I think that is quite different than the Holy Spirit free Kingdom Hall. Really, what "arrangement or procedure" does God's Word spell out? Why does the modern JW church have such a hung-up on spelling out so many arrangements and procedures... just for reporting field service time even? Jesus didn't see a need to do it before, so why does Watchtower Incorporated handle things in such a Wall Street business fashion?
B the X