Post 2566 of 2566 Since 7/7/2004 | This a TYPICAL example of how reading the verses in the bible over and over you get exactly the gist of what Paul is saying. 1Thess 4: 14 - 17 Those who are already dead, arise first to be with the Lord. Those still alive when the time comes to join him in heaven are "caught away" to meet the lord in the air, and are "always with the Lord" because as Paul says "we shall not ALL fall asleep in death." Since the records of the Olivet Discourse show this happening at the time the Son of Man arrives, I dont see how it can be post Armageddy, or after judging the sheep and goats. (all post 1995 understandings .Yet the WTBTS denies this, because it doesnt fit with the eschatology propounded by Rutherford. Personally I can see this anti rapture theology going next - it doesnt mesh with all the current rethinkie stuff going on in the publications... Any thoughts?? HB |
THE ANTI RAPTURE THEOLOGY WILL GO NEXT.
by hamsterbait 4 Replies latest jw friends
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hamsterbait
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hamsterbait
Sure enough:
July Study edition 2013: The remaining annointed are taken to heaven between the Great Tribulation and the outbreak of Armageddon.
Let's just think: 12 000 or more people, some of them in their 40s all dying of natural causes simultaneously so they can be resurrected? God killing them? God catching them away to meet the Lord??
HB
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DATA-DOG
Kool-aid at the Memorial of 2014? Yes, I caught that as well. I thought, " So...we believe in the rapture now?!" The Bible does say that at the " END " before the restoration of all things, that the saints ( whoever they prove to be ) will be caught away to meet the Lord. I don't recall the WTBTS ever teaching that..
WT 06/15/1954
6 Some religious interpreters of the Bible have concluded from Jesus' words regarding those taken along and those abandoned that when he returns he will suddenly catch up out of the earth in a "rapture" some whom he has approved while others will be left behind and destroyed by fire. This is private interpretation and a wresting of the Scriptures. According to the miniature fulfillment of Jesus' words to his disciples they were separated from the rest of Israel only in their favorable standing and relation with Jehovah. On the other hand, the religious leaders and those who would follow them were left desolated of God's favor and allowed to remain for almost forty years to hear the resurrection of Christ preached throughout the nation. So Israel's time of decision continued until A.D. 70, while those who had been "taken along" continued present with those who had been "abandoned." This miniature foreshadow finds a parallel in the time of Christ's second manifestation and revelation.
7 In 1918 the Lord suddenly appeared at the spiritual temple for judgment. At that time he showed favor to the faithful overcomers who were in the sleep of death by raising them to immortality. Those found faithful on the earth were taken along by the Lord into temple service and entrusted with the interests of God's kingdom. (Luke 12:42-44; 1 Thess. 4:16, 17) Since then, especially from 1919 on, they have joyfully gone forth heralding the presence of the King and proclaiming throughout all the inhabited earth the good news of his established kingdom, pointing to the sign of Christ's second presence, the sign of the Son of man.( I believe this is " old light now) At the same time those who were found to be sluggardly slaves, unmindful of the advance of the sign of Christ's presence, were abandoned to their own evil imaginings and cast out with the class of lawless religious leaders, those called "hypocrites" who have never been faithful to their implied covenant to do temple service. There they await the accomplished end when Christ will be revealed.-Matt. 24:48-51; Luke 12:45, 46.
So..no " rapture " mentioned here. The WTBT$ love their figurative fulfilments..
WT 04-15-1974
Against this background, we can appreciate that the reference to the living being "caught away" could not mean that their bodies of flesh and blood will begin floating upward to meet the Lord Jesus Christ in what some people speak of as "the rapture." He will not be in the literal air on a literal cloud, for he "dwells in unapproachable light" in the highest heavens, the invisible spirit realm. Nevertheless, the being "caught away" must relate to something that actually happens in connection with the resurrection
.Could this relate to their being "caught away" from the doomed world of mankind? Could it refer to their being elevated, 'seated in the heavenly places with Christ Jesus' because of having been assigned with him to the heavenly inheritance? (Eph. 1:3; 2:6) No, this was not what Paul was discussing in his letter to the Thessalonians.
The reference to being "caught away" was a point that Christians at Thessalonica could use to comfort one another when Jesus' joint heirs would die. Obviously, the fact that the joint heirs are now separated from the doomed world is not the real source of comfort when there is a death in the congregation of God's people. Then, too, being separated in this way and united with Jesus in a spiritual sense simply could not mean being 'always with the Lord.' Once Christ's joint heirs finish their earthly course, that condition is no more, as they will then at resurrection be personally with their Lord and that forever. And, of course, the doomed world will also pass away. Furthermore, a person might now on earth be separated from the world for a time but later lose out on the reward of being with the Lord Jesus Christ because of unfaithfulness.-Rev. 2:10
.Accordingly, Paul's words to the Thessalonians point out that there is something different about the resurrection of those dying before Christ's presence in Kingdom power and those completing their earthly course and dying during that presence. This difference may be discerned from Revelation 14:13, where we read: "Happy are the dead who die in union with the Lord from this time onward [that is, since his coming in Kingdom glory]. Yes, says the spirit, let them rest from their labors, for the things they did go right with them." While Christ's joint heirs dying before his presence had to sleep in death, those who finish their earthly course during that presence do not have to do so. They are immediately raised to heavenly life. They cease from their earthly labors and enter right into heavenly service. As invisible spirit persons, they are "caught away," as if in clouds (a symbol of invisibility), to be forever with their invisible Lord. This is also in harmony with the apostle Paul's words to the Corinthians: "We shall not all fall asleep in death [that is, remaining in the death state while awaiting a resurrection in the future], but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye."-1 Cor. 15:51, 52.
Thus, what Paul wrote at 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 was, essentially, this encouraging message: Anointed Christians who die before the presence of the Lord sleep in death. When that awaited presence begins, they are raised to heavenly life as immortal spirit creatures. Anointed Christians alive during that presence, however, do not sleep in death. At death they are immediately changed, being taken to heaven to be with Christ forever.
If Christ began ruling after his resurrection then the WTBT$ is screwed, and will do anything to bury this information. We already know the Heavenly hope never ended in the 1930's as Rutherford stated. This is further proff that all Christians should partake, and that the 2 class system of the WTBT$ is a lie. So the Heavenly hope never ended, regardless of whether Christ's " parousia " occured after his resurrection, or denotes a " coming alongside " each of us as individuals.
Once again the WTBT$ literature is their own worst enemy.
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AnnOMaly
hamsterbait - you're not the only one who caught that. I didn't pick up on the rapture allusion, but a long-time loyal JW pointed it out to me only yesterday.
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DATA-DOG
WT 11/1/1983
Armageddon-prelude to paradise.
" The real "Israel," ( 144,000 jw's ) however, will survive, although not by being lifted off the earthly scene in a rapture, as some modern preachers claim..."
WT 1/15/1985
The Middle East-Site of Armageddon?
A growing number of fundamentalist preachers, theologians, and TV evangelists, though, applaud these developments. Escalating Middle East tensions have worked to give seeming credence to their startling predictions that Armageddon is soon to take place in that vicinity! And by sounding the alarm in books, lectures, and television productions, they have gathered a considerable following.
These commentators quarrel over the exact sequence of events.( tacking in the wind, LOL!!) But a typical 'Armageddon scenario' goes like this: The starting of the 'doomsday countdown,' they say, was the establishment of the State of Israel. They therefore feel that the so-called rapture is imminent. According to them, soon true Christians will suddenly disappear from the earth-being snatched up to heaven.
WT 1/15/1993
'Caught Away to Meet the Lord'-How?
".... But what of the comparatively few ( 12,000 plus ) anointed Christians still living on the earth? Do they await the rapture?"
"Caught Away"-How?
After referring to anointed Christians who had died, Paul added: "Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with the Lord." (Verse 17) "The living" would be those alive during Christ's presence. They would be "caught away" to meet the Lord Jesus. As in the case of faithful early Christians, death as a human is necessary for them to be united with Christ in heaven.-Romans 8:17, 35-39.
In writing to Christians in Corinth, Paul stated: "This I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Look! I tell you a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep in death, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed." (1 Corinthians 15:50-52)
Upon dying in faithfulness during Christ's presence, each one of the remnant of spiritual Israel instantaneously receives his heavenly reward. "In the twinkling of an eye," he is resurrected as a spirit creature and "caught away" to meet Jesus and to serve as a coruler in the Kingdom of the heavens. But what about all others worshiping Jehovah? As the end of this wicked system approaches, will they also be caught away to heaven?
So, no " rapture " here either. All " anointed " must die to join Christ in Heaven. Since Rutherford was wrong and the heavenly door never closed, it seems all Christians must die according to the WTBT$. That is, unless there is a " rapture " at the END Of THE AGE.