reply from friend on 607...1914..etc

by isaacaustin 3 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  isaacaustin

  I have had an ongoing discussion with a friend on the validity of 1914, as well as the chronology leading to it...I roundly refuted the WT drivel quoted and got this response....notice the changing of topics...as well as admission he can not refute...

  I am so sorry that I have used the wrong term when talking about the scriptures in Num. and Eze. ("a day for a year") as a rule. I did not mean to say that it had to be applied as a rule to understand all the other prophetic scriptures. All I meant to say was that at the end of the 2,520 days (mentioned in Daniel and Revelation) nothing significant happened to indicate Jesus had begun to rule in heaven. Only when you change it to use years, as in Num. and Eze., that we come to 1914, a year that had some very significant events take place. I will not deny that the Bible students of the time had incorrect expectations of what Christ's coming really entailed, but they were aware that something special would take place then nonetheless. Let's not forget that the apostasy has been in full swing for so many centuries and the light of truth was obscured for so long. It would take time to get the correct understanding on things and adjustments would have to be made and humbly accept the discipline.
  
  Regarding Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Daniel 4... he dreamt of a tree that was cut down an d20not allowed to grow again for seven periods. It is not his madness that typifies the gentile times but, rather, the tree being cut down and not allowed to grow again for that length of time. I know that I may not be able to convince you on this point, or on the year 607 as the starting year, or whether the succession of Babylonian kings fit the timeline. I do not have the command of history or mathematics like you do. I do know this, though, that there was a beginning to the bad course man has taken in disobedience to God, and that there will be an ending of it at God's hands (Dan. 2:44). In Daniel 2 there is succession of world powers that are represented in Neb's dream by a large image, and that we are living in the days (at the feet of the image) that the destruction of all human governments will take place. My great desire for sharing this with you is because I care too much about you and want you and your family very much to be there in the new system of things to enjoy God's blessings with the rest of us... for "he that does the will of God remains forever". (1 John 2:15-17).
• 

  Olin Moyles Ghost

  The JW response is not surprising. There are so many holes in the JW "Gentile Times" theology, that it's hard to pick one to start with.

  To me, the issue of 607 vs. 587 is of secondary importance. Even if 607 was correct (which it isn't), why does there need to be a second fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy? If there's a second fulfillment, why can't there be a third, fourth, etc.? It makes no sense. Rather, it shows a sort of generational narcissism--that everything in the Bible has to be about ME or MY generation.

  And the discussion of the image in Neb's dream also exposes weaknesses in JW theology. For example, the Witnesses teach that the legs of iron represent Rome and that the feet represent the "Anglo-American" world power. So the Witnesses would have us believe that the Roman world power was still in place during the middle ages? What about Genghis Khan? His empire was larger than any of these other world powers. And later, what about the Ottoman empire?

  Honestly, that idea of 7 world powers is a total sham...the JWs remind me of Nostradomas followers who try desperately to shoehorn historical events into his prophecies. It's pathetic.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Now that I am out of the haze of JW doctrines, there is no reason to have a second fulfillment of Nebuchadnezzar's dream. There's no connection to apply it to God's Kingdom rule. There's no reason to apply the "day for a year." Really, that rule was for a day representing a year, not a "time" representing 360 days which represent 360 years (which happen to be 365.25 days long). That's all mucked up the way WTS applies it. They are not the first, it's been going on for a long time, and WTS just takes for granted that some hidden code exists in the scriptures.
• 

  bennyk

  Your friend writes:

  I will not deny that the Bible students of the time had incorrect expectations of what Christ's coming really entailed, but they were aware that something special would take place then nonetheless. Let's not forget that the apostasy has been in full swing for so many centuries and the light of truth was obscured for so long. It would take time to get the correct understanding on things and adjustments would have to be made and humbly accept the discipline.

  Or, rather than 'humbly accepting the discipline', the Watch Tower Society could snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by lying about their insight. "The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honesthearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus' presence in heavenly kingdom power began in 1914." ( Watchtower, 15. Jan. 1993, p. 5) Not true. "Based on what [Jesus] said, along with the words of Daniel and John, Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance,* as marking the start of 'the conclusion of the system of things.' " ( Awake! 22. January 1973) Likewise, not true.

  What can we conclude from these statements? Why not take the Watch Tower Society at their own words --

  "A religion that teaches lies cannot be true." (Watchtower, 01. December 1991, p.7)