textbook JW answer for 'Jesus didn't shun anyone'

by besty 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  besty

  any takers?
• 

  sir82

  Hmm...

  How about

  "the Christian congregation was not established until Pentecost 33 CE, after Jesus had returned to heaven. Disfellowshipping was instituted for the Christian congregation - it wasn't in effect at the time Jesus walked the earth".

  Or how about

  "Jesus didn't associate with unrepentant wrongdoers - for example, he condemned the Pharisees who, unlike Nicodemus, continued to have a bad heart condition"
• 

  aSphereisnotaCircle

  Jesus was a perfect man.

  So he didn't have to worry about bad associations spoiling useful habits.
• 

  besty

  ok good points thanks

  and I would reply along the lines of:

  Naturally, Jesus introduced the Christian standard on how wrongdoers should be treated, saying:

  “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.” Matthew 18:15-17 (NWT)

  The instruction was to bring up the matter of sin first between the two individuals alone. Then, if the sinner would repent, there was no need to carry the matter further. If the sinner was not repentant, then one or two others should be sought for witnesses. If the sinner remained unrepentant, only then, as a last resort, should it be brought before the congregation, not privately with the "elders", as the Watchtower Society has redefined Jesus' words to mean.

  If, after all that, the person still would not listen, he should then be treated the same as Gentiles and tax collectors. In other words, Christians were to treat former members just like anyone else who was not a member of the congregation. To be treated like a "man of the nations" (which is to say, a Gentile or foreigner) was far from being shunned. Jewish people worked with, associated with, transacted business with, and preached to Gentiles. As for "tax collectors," Jesus ate and associated with them. Matthew was a tax collector. Tax collectors were not popular, but they were not shunned. Jesus did not say to never utter a word to an unrepentant wrong doer but to treat them “as a tax collector”. He himself spoke to and ate with tax collectors:

  Next, while passing along from there, Jesus caught sight of a man named Matthew seated at the tax office, and he said to him: "Be my follower." Thereupon he did rise up and follow him. Later, while he was reclining at the table in the house, look! many tax collectors and sinners came and began reclining with Jesus and his disciples. But on seeing this the Pharisees began to say to his disciples: "Why is it that your teacher eats with tax collectors and sinners?" Hearing [them], he said: "Persons in health do not need a physician, but the ailing do. Go, then, and learn what this means, 'I want mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners." --Matt.9:9-13 (NWT)
• 

  Farkel

  :textbook JW answer for 'Jesus didn't shun anyone'

  Jesus didn't have the Governing Body around to tell him what to do. Otherwise, Jesus would have properly shunned as instructed.

  Farkel
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  besty

  haha fark - you crack me up
• 

  JWoods

  True Christianity was not discovered until the Apostle Paul explained it to the Jerusalem Elders and everybody else in the middle east.

  Some say it drove the Apostle John so crazy that he began to have visions.
• 

  PSacramento

  JWoods, that was too funny !!

  Probably true too, LOL !

  Its funny that Jesus says to treat them like "tax collectors", considering that Jesus had no issue with them, even going so far as to dine with them.

  When Peter asked Jesus how many times he shoudl forgive someone that trespassed aginst him, I think that Jesus's answer on the matter is very clear.
• 

  JWinprotest

  Besty this is the exact reasoning I used with my mom about a month ago when she drilled me about going to one of my best friend's wedding. He's been inactive for about 10 years and he has a disfellowshipped brother that was also in attendance. My mom told me that the bible says we shouldn't even eat a meal with the disfellowshipped. I replied," well why would Jesus eat with tax collectors(the most hated group by Jews) and sinners, if it was wrong? He even corrected those that were trying to tell him it was wrong, saying these are the ones that truly need my help why would I turn my back on them. "

  Of course as usual I don't get a reply when she gets stumped, but I think it left an impression. When she's stumped, she pauses for a few seconds and makes this really weird face, as if she's constipated, and then she just changes the subject.
• 

  besty

  good man JWIP :-)

  I remember when my Mum was still speaking to me and I had told her on the phone we wouldn't be going back. We were arguing back and forth on some doctrinal point and she was losing. <note - i don't recommend arguing doctrine> But when she realised she was in a logical corner she said to me "this is like being in a wrestling match" alluding to Eph 6:12.

  Another time I was speaking to an active JW about blood. The conversation ended with them saying - "oh but you are just better at arguing than I am"

  they like to transfer the blame for the doctrinal holes to the person speaking to them - its basically an ad hominem thought stopper :-)

  see my Knol here for more info on disfellowshipping

  http://knol.google.com/k/paul-morrison/why-jehovahs-witnesses-shun-people/290ks3g12r97j/3#

  I'm getting about 250 page views a month so i count 120 hours a month of apostate anti-witnessing :-))))