Comments You Will Not Hear at the 10-04-09 WT Study (August 15, 2009, pages 3-7)(GOD-GIVEN HOPE)
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EVERLASTING LIFE ON EARTH--A GOD-GIVEN HOPE
"The creation was subjected to futility...on the basis of hope."--ROM. 8:20
OPENING COMMENTS
What was the hope that Christ presented to his followers...life on earth or heaven?
SCANS--START OF ARTICLE
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http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3460
Q1,2. (a) Why is the hope of everlasting life on earth important to us? (b) Why are many people skeptical about
everlasting life on earth?
So what is the NEAR FUTURE? The WTS has been predicting the coming of the new system since 1879 with dates
of 1914, 1915, 1920, 1925, early 1940's, 1975, (1984--70 years generation from 1914), (1994--80 years generation
from 1914) until they scuttled the 1914 generation doctrine in 1995.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1800s.php
Is the theme of this article the CARROT held out to jws of everlasting life on earth or prophecy not being understood?
PROBABLY is a term the WTS uses to add to the bible account.
Is it a SCRIPTURAL HOPE and ESSENTIAL to the good news? What was the hope that Christ held out to his
followers?
FOR THE MOST PART, the religions of Christendom have ignored the hope of everlasting life on earth. (So which
religions have not? Why not be specific).
MAJORITY OF CHURCHES--is a majority 51%, what about the 49%?
Q3. How was God's purpose for man evident from the start of human history?
CLEARLY indicated........another buzzword
NO DOUBT...another buzzword that adds to the bible.
Human life span declined OT with a 120 year ceiling? Was this confirmed in the minds of the people living then.
Methusaleh died just before the flood at 969 years of age.
Many people MUST HAVE realized....another way to add to the bible.
Q4. What basis did faithful men of old have for believing that God would restore the blessings that Adam had lost?
No faithful women? OT examples--Abel and Noah
MAVE HAVE realized....another buzz phrase adding to the bible.
Q5. What shows that Abraham had faith in the resurrection?
OT example--Abraham
Is the WTS saying that Sarah's reproductive powers had not been brought back?
Abraham fathered Ishmael with Hagar...does that mean that he ceased being able to have children after that or was the
issue really Sarah?
JEHOVAH'S WORD--not written....there was no bible then...Abraham talked to God. But what does the WTS say?
QUOTE
*** w04 1/1 p. 29 Highlights From the Book of Genesis—I ***
Did Jehovah God speak to Adam directly? The Bible reveals that when God spoke to humans, it was often through an
angel. (Genesis 16:7-11; 18:1-3, 22-26; 19:1; Judges 2:1-4; 6:11-16, 22; 13:15-22) God’s chief spokesman was his
only-begotten Son, called “the Word.” (John 1:1) Very likely God spoke to Adam and Eve through “the
Word.”—Genesis 1:26-28; 2:16; 3:8-13.
OR
QUOTE
*** w93 6/1 p. 21 What Does It Take to Make You Happy? ***
Today, God does not speak to his servants directly as he did to Job.
Q6,7. (a) What covenant did Jehovah make with Abraham? (b) How did Jehovah's promise to Abraham provide hope
for mankind?
So did Abraham understand that there was a primary and a secondary seed? Was there any mention of it in God's
words to him? No mention of 144,000 now or even by Jesus.
Abraham COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE UNDERSTOOD THE FULL SIGNIFICANCE of the covenant--do jws today
understand that they are not under that covenant per the WTS? That Jesus is not their mediator?
Yet somehow Abraham understood a complicated doctrine, the resurrection, without anything definite said to him.
Who do survive Armageddon to get eternal life per the WTS?
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/resurrection.php
"Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the
protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system
dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep. 1 p.19
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/salvation-only-for-jehovahs-witnesses.php
Q8,9. Why is the book of Job not merely an account of one man's trials?
How was it that Satan could enter freely to heaven and talk to God after his "fall"?
OT example--Job DID NOT UNDERSTAND THIS ISSUE--in fact he knew nothing of what was happening in heaven,
how Satan had been allowed to kill all of his ten children.
so-called comforters--did you find many jws to be the same blaming you for your difficulties in life, that somehow you
had committed a serious sin and were hiding it, who considered themselves superior to you, they accused him of
imaginary sins they assumed he must have committed.
OT example--Elihu SPOKE UNDER INSPIRATION. Do elders think they are the same?
Q10. What shows that Jehovah's message to an individual has a broader application to mankind in general?
Jehovah sometimes gives a message to an individual that also HAS A BROADER APPLICATION FOR MANKIND IN
GENERAL.
But the WTS says they alone can make that application, and change it, and change it back in the case of when the great
tribulation starts, ends temporarily, and starts up again.
OT--Daniel--607 BCE to 1914 CE = 2,520 years?
Why not the Kingdom book Appendix p. 186 (see at end)
*** Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy chap. 6 pp. 95-97 pars. 26-28 Unraveling the Mystery of the Great Tree ***
Evidently, Nebuchadnezzar’s “seven times” involved seven years. In prophecy, a year averages 360 days, or
12 months of 30 days each. (Compare Revelation 12:6, 14.) So the king’s “seven times,” or seven years, were 360
days multiplied by 7, or 2,520 days. But what about the major fulfillment of his dream? The prophetic “seven times”
lasted much longer than 2,520 days. This was indicated by Jesus’ words: “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the
nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24) That ‘trampling’ began in 607 B.C.E. when
Jerusalem was destroyed and the typical kingdom of God ceased to function in Judah. When would the trampling end?
At “the times of restoration of all things,” when divine sovereignty would again be manifested toward the earth through
symbolic Jerusalem, the Kingdom of God.—Acts 3:21.
If we were to count 2,520 literal days from Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E., that would bring us only to
600 B.C.E., a year having no Scriptural significance. Even in 537 B.C.E., when the liberated Jews were back in Judah,
Jehovah’s sovereignty was not manifested on the earth. That was so because Zerubbabel, the heir to David’s throne,
was made not king but only governor of the Persian province of Judah.
Since the “seven times” are prophetic, we must apply to the 2,520 days the Scriptural rule: “A day for a year.” This rule
is set out in a prophecy regarding the Babylonian siege of Jerusalem. (Ezekiel 4:6, 7; compare Numbers 14:34.) The
“seven times” of earth’s domination by Gentile powers without interference by God’s Kingdom therefore spanned
2,520 years. They began with the desolation of Judah and Jerusalem in the seventh lunar month (Tishri 15) of
607 B.C.E. (2 Kings 25:8, 9, 25, 26) From that point to 1 B.C.E. is 606 years. The remaining 1,914 years stretch from
then to 1914 C.E. Thus, the “seven times,” or 2,520 years, ended by Tishri 15, or October 4/5, 1914 C.E.
COMMENTS
The WTS taught that Jesus became king in 1878.
QUOTE
*** jv chap. 28 p. 632 Testing and Sifting From Within ***
Based on the premise that events of the first century might find parallels in related events later, they also concluded that
if Jesus’ baptism and anointing in the autumn of 29 C.E. paralleled the beginning of an invisible presence in 1874, then
his riding into Jerusalem as King in the spring of 33 C.E. would point to the spring of 1878 as the time when he would
assume his power as heavenly King.
That 1878 was a year of significance seemed to be fortified by reference to Jeremiah 16:18 (‘Jacob’s double,’ KJ)
along with calculations indicating that 1,845 years had apparently elapsed from Jacob’s death down till 33 C.E., when
natural Israel was cast off, and that the double, or duplicate, of this would extend from 33 C.E. down to 1878.
COMMENTS
SOON--130 years since 1879 and still waiting (Noah only waited 120 years)
OBEDIENT mankind = only jws
Q11. Elihu's words indicated what about God?
OT example--Elihu
Repentant humans--only jws
Q12. The words of Elihu provide what hope for mankind in general?
Elihu PROBABLY DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE FULL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE RANSOM
Prophets DID NOT COMPLETELY COMPREHEND EVERYTHING THEY WROTE
But that has not stopped the WTS from giving wrong explanations over the years including the 1878 one above.
Did Elihu understand the "wonderful prospect of everlasting life"?
Q13. Christians find what meaning in Elihu's words?
Christians - only jws
millions of Christians who hope to survive the destruction of the present system of things = only jws
Where is there any real support in this article for IMMORTALITY IN HEAVEN for a few and only everlasting life on earth
for the "other sheep" which some see as meaning Gentile anointed Christians?
Q14. What shows that something more than the Mosaic Law was needed in order for the Israelites to entertain the
hope of everlasting life?
Using an OT example, how many jws think of themselves in a covenant relationship with whom? Jesus? Think about
the last meal he had with them. Was the covenant with Jesus or God?
Q15. About what future blessing was David inspired to write?
So was David thinking about everlasting life in heaven? Another OT example--David--for a NT concept for Christians.
Q16. Through Isaiah, what did Jehovah promise about the future of "all the earth"?
Another OT example--Isaiah--who did not prophesy about everlasting life in heaven.
Q17. What prophetic role of the Messian opens the way to everlasting life?
How many jws remember studying about the goat for Azazel?
Q18,19. What hope is highlighted at Isaiah 26:19 and Daniel 12:13?
OT example again--your dead ones will live--where?
Hebrew Scriptures (OT) CLEARLY set forth...yet for Christians the hope was in heaven. So how clear is this?
Next week NT--Martha mentioned.
CONCLUDING COMMENTS
So how many times did the WTS say that we cannot possibly understand the prophecies?
*** w00 3/15 p. 13 par. 12 ‘O God, Send Out Your Light’ ***
Just as the apostles understood many prophecies concerning the Messiah only after Jesus’ death and resurrection,
Christians today understand Bible prophecy in its finest detail only after it has been fulfilled. (Luke 24:15, 27; Acts
1:15-21; 4:26, 27) Revelation is a prophetic book, so we should expect to understand it most clearly as the events it
describes unfold.
Next week, "Everlasting Life on Earth--A Christian Hope?
Love, Blondie
*** kc pp. 186-189 Appendix to Chapter 14 ***
Historians hold that Babylon fell to Cyrus’ army in October 539 B.C.E. Nabonidus was then king, but his son Belshazzar
was coruler of Babylon. Some scholars have worked out a list of the Neo-Babylonian kings and the length of their
reigns, from the last year of Nabonidus back to Nebuchadnezzar’s father Nabopolassar.
According to that Neo-Babylonian chronology, Crown-prince Nebuchadnezzar defeated the Egyptians at the battle of
Carchemish in 605 B.C.E. (Jeremiah 46:1, 2) After Nabopolassar died Nebuchadnezzar returned to Babylon to assume
the throne. His first regnal year began the following spring (604 B.C.E.).
The Bible reports that the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem in his 18th regnal year (19th when
accession year is included). (Jeremiah 52:5, 12, 13, 29) Thus if one accepted the above Neo-Babylonian chronology,
the desolation of Jerusalem would have been in the year 587/6 B.C.E. But on what is this secular chronology based
and how does it compare with the chronology of the Bible?
Some major lines of evidence for this secular chronology are:
Ptolemy’s Canon: Claudius Ptolemy was a Greek astronomer who lived in the second century C.E. His Canon, or list of
kings, was connected with a work on astronomy that he produced. Most modern historians accept Ptolemy’s
information about the Neo-Babylonian kings and the length of their reigns (though Ptolemy does omit the reign of
Labashi-Marduk). Evidently Ptolemy based his historical information on sources dating from the Seleucid period, which
began more than 250 years after Cyrus captured Babylon. It thus is not surprising that Ptolemy’s figures agree with
those of Berossus, a Babylonian priest of the Seleucid period.
Nabonidus Harran Stele (NABON H 1, B): This contemporary stele, or pillar with an inscription, was discovered in 1956.
It mentions the reigns of the Neo-Babylonian kings Nebuchadnezzar, Evil-Merodach, Neriglissar. The figures given for
these three agree with those from Ptolemy’s Canon.
VAT 4956: This is a cuneiform tablet that provides astronomical information datable to 568 B.C.E. It says that the
observations were from Nebuchadnezzar’s 37th year. This would correspond to the chronology that places his 18th
regnal year in 587/6 B.C.E. However, this tablet is admittedly a copy made in the third century B.C.E. so it is possible
that its historical information is simply that which was accepted in the Seleucid period.
Business tablets: Thousands of contemporary Neo-Babylonian cuneiform tablets have been found that record simple
business transactions, stating the year of the Babylonian king when the transaction occurred. Tablets of this sort have
been found for all the years of reign for the known Neo-Babylonian kings in the accepted chronology of the period.
From a secular viewpoint, such lines of evidence might seem to establish the Neo-Babylonian chronology with
Nebuchadnezzar’s 18th year (and the destruction of Jerusalem) in 587/6 B.C.E. However, no historian can deny the
possibility that the present picture of Babylonian history might be misleading or in error. It is known, for example, that
ancient priests and kings sometimes altered records for their own purposes. Or, even if the discovered evidence is
accurate, it might be misinterpreted by modern scholars or be incomplete so that yet undiscovered material could
drastically alter the chronology of the period.
Evidently realizing such facts, Professor Edward F. Campbell, Jr., introduced a chart, which included Neo-Babylonian
chronology, with the caution: “It goes without saying that these lists are provisional. The more one studies the intricacies
of the chronological problems in the ancient Near East, the less he is inclined to think of any presentation as final. For
this reason, the term circa [about] could be used even more liberally than it is.”—The Bible and the Ancient Near East
(1965 ed.), p. 281.
Christians who believe the Bible have time and again found that its words stand the test of much criticism and have
been proved accurate and reliable. They recognize that as the inspired Word of God it can be used as a measuring rod
in evaluating secular history and views. (2 Timothy 3:16, 17) For instance, though the Bible spoke of Belshazzar as ruler
of Babylon, for centuries scholars were confused about him because no secular documents were available as to his
existence, identity or position. Finally, however, archaeologists discovered secular records that confirmed the Bible.
Yes, the Bible’s internal harmony and the care exercised by its writers, even in matters of chronology, recommends it
so strongly to the Christian that he places its authority above that of the ever-changing opinions of secular historians.
But how does the Bible help us to determine when Jerusalem was destroyed, and how does this compare to secular
chronology?
The prophet Jeremiah predicted that the Babylonians would destroy Jerusalem and make the city and land a
desolation. (Jeremiah 25:8, 9) He added: “And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of
astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.” (Jeremiah 25:11) The 70 years
expired when Cyrus the Great, in his first year, released the Jews and they returned to their homeland. (2 Chronicles
36:17-23) We believe that the most direct reading of Jeremiah 25:11 and other texts is that the 70 years would date
from when the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem and left the land of Judah desolate.—Jeremiah 52:12-15, 24-27;
36:29-31.
Yet those who rely primarily on secular information for the chronology of that period realize that if Jerusalem were
destroyed in 587/6 B.C.E. certainly it was not 70 years until Babylon was conquered and Cyrus let the Jews return to
their homeland. In an attempt to harmonize matters, they claim that Jeremiah’s prophecy began to be fulfilled in 605
B.C.E. Later writers quote Berossus as saying that after the battle of Carchemish Nebuchadnezzar extended
Babylonian influence into all Syria-Palestine and, when returning to Babylon (in his accession year, 605 B.C.E.), he took
Jewish captives into exile. Thus they figure the 70 years as a period of servitude to Babylon beginning in 605 B.C.E.
That would mean that the 70-year period would expire in 535 B.C.E.
But there are a number of major problems with this interpretation:
Though Berossus claims that Nebuchadnezzar took Jewish captives in his accession year, there are no cuneiform
documents supporting this. More significantly, Jeremiah 52:28-30 carefully reports that Nebuchadnezzar took Jews
captive in his seventh year, his 18th year and his 23rd year, not his accession year. Also, Jewish historian Josephus
states that in the year of the battle of Carchemish Nebuchadnezzar conquered all of Syria-Palestine “excepting Judea,”
thus contradicting Berossus and conflicting with the claim that 70 years of Jewish servitude began in Nebuchadnezzar’s
accession year.—Antiquities of the Jews X, vi, 1.
Furthermore, Josephus elsewhere describes the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians and then says that “all
Judea and Jerusalem, and the temple, continued to be a desert for seventy years.” (Antiquities of the Jews X, ix, 7) He
pointedly states that “our city was desolate during the interval of seventy years, until the days of Cyrus.” (Against Apion
I, 19) This agrees with 2 Chronicles 36:21 and Daniel 9:2 that the foretold 70 years were 70 years of full desolation for
the land. Second-century (C.E.) writer Theophilus of Antioch also shows that the 70 years commenced with the
destruction of the temple after Zedekiah had reigned 11 years.—See also 2 Kings 24:18–25:21.
But the Bible itself provides even more telling evidence against the claim that the 70 years began in 605 B.C.E. and that
Jerusalem was destroyed in 587/6 B.C.E. As mentioned, if we were to count from 605 B.C.E., the 70 years would
reach down to 535 B.C.E. However, the inspired Bible writer Ezra reported that the 70 years ran until “the first year of
Cyrus the king of Persia,” who issued a decree allowing the Jews to return to their homeland. (Ezra 1:1-4; 2 Chronicles
36:21-23) Historians accept that Cyrus conquered Babylon in October 539 B.C.E. and that Cyrus’ first regnal year
began in the spring of 538 B.C.E. If Cyrus’ decree came late in his first regnal year, the Jews could easily be back in
their homeland by the seventh month (Tishri) as Ezra 3:1 says; this would be October 537 B.C.E.
However, there is no reasonable way of stretching Cyrus’ first year from 538 down to 535 B.C.E. Some who have tried
to explain away the problem have in a strained manner claimed that in speaking of “the first year of Cyrus” Ezra and
Daniel were using some peculiar Jewish viewpoint that differed from the official count of Cyrus’ reign. But that cannot
be sustained, for both a non-Jewish governor and a document from the Persian archives agree that the decree
occurred in Cyrus’ first year, even as the Bible writers carefully and specifically reported.—Ezra 5:6, 13; 6:1-3; Daniel
1:21; 9:1-3.
Jehovah’s “good word” is bound up with the foretold 70-year period, for God said:
“This is what Jehovah has said, ‘In accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at Babylon I shall turn my attention to you
people, and I will establish toward you my good word in bringing you back to this place.’” (Jeremiah 29:10)
Daniel relied on that word, trusting that the 70 years were not a ‘round number’ but an exact figure that could be counted
on. (Daniel 9:1, 2) And that proved to be so.
Similarly, we are willing to be guided primarily by God’s Word rather than by a chronology that is based principally on
secular evidence or that disagrees with the Scriptures. It seems evident that the easiest and most direct understanding
of the various Biblical statements is that the 70 years began with the complete desolation of Judah after Jerusalem was
destroyed. (Jeremiah 25:8-11; 2 Chronicles 36:20-23; Daniel 9:2) Hence, counting back 70 years from when the Jews
returned to their homeland in 537 B.C.E., we arrive at 607 B.C.E. for the date when Nebuchadnezzar, in his 18th regnal
year, destroyed Jerusalem, removed Zedekiah from the throne and brought to an end the Judean line of kings on a
throne in earthly Jerusalem.—Ezekiel 21:19-27.