Help with a 'study' please - atheists side.

by GapingMouth 8 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  GapingMouth

  Hi all,

  I was having an email chat with this guy (I dont know him very well) but he wanted a debate on Gods existence. His English is terrible, but can you help me formulate a response please? He isnt JW, I don't think, but there are some questions here about evolution etc. For those of you who are religious, perhaps this isn't the thread for you to try to put your views across and agree with him - feel free to comment but I may not respond directly to those. I hope that doesn't sound rude, I just want the atheists answer, as that is the side I will take in our debate. I'm not about to answer with other points about God, right? Thanks for your help folks. His email follows:

  to come straght to the point

  Let me tell you that ther is a right translation of the original message inspired by god

  i do know that people uesd to try to put confusion around saying there must be a controversy about the authenticity and the origin of the Bible

  2 thimothy 3 verse 16

  the Authors of the Bible especially of the new book(John apostle Paul and so one) are followers of Jesus Christ God manifested in Flesh for the work of Salvation of the whole

  world

  For the book of Revelation John has a vision on the Isle of Patmos

  I do not believe Evolution theory so far what is the last chain between Human and Gorilla?

  How come that from fossiles we have Human and after different species how did their supposed evolution being not be compleeted?

  who's the Author of the Big Bang

  There is merely A Mighty Hand behind all this Creation and the iIntelligence leading it

  [think of a sandwich that can be created (edited to make sense - GM)] Well i think this is a small thing if i dare say that needed not a lot of ingeniosity

  But for the moon the movement of Clouds su it's more complex

  Can evoluiton theory explain the cycle of the birth of a baby form the embryo stage to the human being?

  God said that i put my Words before my Name(because there is a Mighty power behind each of them each phrase of the Bible each sentences if only you have faith the smallest one and i am living this experience)

  Right from this how can god allowe his words to be counterfait,

  Please do you believe in Miracle?

  ok do you know the History of Israel

  Israel is the Chosen nation of God Jehovahsince early days

  Please check it

  Israel it the vivid or tangible testimony of the Mighty of God and the Holy scriptures

  no nation can defeat them when they got defeated it was due to their disobedience

  How can you explain that in Africa people are speaking in tongue as it is written in the Bible?

  a tongue from Israel a tongue that is translated by the samr People through the holy Spirit God Himself
• 

  Elsewhere

  1. I do not believe Evolution theory so far what is the last chain between Human and Gorilla?
     There is no link between humans and simians. Humans did not evolve from simians. Humans and simians share a common ancestor that was a rodent.
  2. How come that from fossiles we have Human and after different species how did their supposed evolution being not be compleeted?
     I have no idea what he is saying or asking
  3. who's the Author of the Big Bang
     No one knows and no scientist claims to know.
     
     First, please define what is meant by "God". What is "God"? How does it function? Who is the author of God? If there is no need for God to be created, then what makes you think the universe needed to be created? If God (not created) is more complex than the universe, then why cannot you accept that the universe(less complex than God) was also not created?
     
     What type of instrumentation does a theist use to measure the properties of God in order to prove its existence? Anything that exists and can affect us must have measurable properties... if God is able to influence us it must certainly have properties that can be measured with some sort of instrumentation.
  4. There is merely A Mighty Hand behind all this Creation and the iIntelligence leading it [think of a sandwich that can be created (edited to make sense - GM)] Well i think this is a small thing if i dare say that needed not a lot of ingeniosity But for the moon the movement of Clouds su it's more complex
     I have no idea what he is saying or asking.
  5. Can evoluiton theory explain the cycle of the birth of a baby form the embryo stage to the human being?
     Yes.
  6. God said that i put my Words before my Name(because there is a Mighty power behind each of them each phrase of the Bible each sentences if only you have faith the smallest one and i am living this experience)Right from this how can god allowe his words to be counterfait, Please do you believe in Miracle?
     Please define Miracle.
  7. ok do you know the History of Israel Israel is the Chosen nation of God Jehovahsince early days. Please check it
     Please prove this using hard facts outside of the bible.
  8. Israel it the vivid or tangible testimony of the Mighty of God and the Holy scriptures
     Please prove this using hard facts outside of the bible.
  9. no nation can defeat them when they got defeated it was due to their disobedience
     Please prove this using hard facts outside of the bible.
  10. How can you explain that in Africa people are speaking in tongue as it is written in the Bible?
      Please prove this using hard facts outside of the bible.
  11. a tongue from Israel a tongue that is translated by the samr People through the holy Spirit God Himself
      Please prove this using hard facts outside of the bible.
• 

  Gopher

  GapingMouth, that is a huge agenda he built. I don't know how you can talk about Bible miracles, all the aspects of evolution he raised, and linguistics in one session. It'd be too confusing.

  I'd say take just one topic at a time, starting with the authenticity (or lack thereof) of Bible history.

  I have enjoyed listening to Dr. Hector Avalos of Iowa State University, a former Christian who came to understand that archaeology disproves the historicity of the Bible.

  This video might give you a good background to begin building your case.

  http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2008/04/hector-avalos-how-archaeology-killed.html
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  Spook

  You will loose unless you narrow him down or take an affirmative position (that something is the case rather than is not the case). I would narrow him at the very first point about there being a right interpretation of the bible.

  This is not the case and he has no basis in that assumption. Even the best theist debators would not start here, but rather end here.

  My argument would be: There are good reasons to believe the Old Testament God is just a literary character. (Or perhaps) The bible is a wicked and superstitious pile of non-sense.

  I probably wouldn't waste your time, but enjoy if you insist. Just remember he believes because he is experiencing an emotional thing, not because of reason.
• 

  Elsewhere

  > I would narrow him at the very first point about there being a right interpretation of the bible.

  Good point.

  I would also go further and avoid all topics regarding interpretation of the bible.

  Before you even get there you must first demand that your opponent define the authorship of the bible and then prove it using materials other than the bible. I cannot prove that Dr. Seuss wrote his books by reading his books. I need to see proof of authorship in the form of a copyright document and other materials such as a rough draft or correspondence written during authorship in which he was talking about his work to a friend or family member.
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  villabolo

  1) "I do not believe Evolution theory so far what is the last chain between Human and Gorilla?" Evolution is not like a chain but like a family tree. Chimpanzees are our closest relatives. The common ancestor between us and chimpanzees lived around 8-10 million years ago. Creatures that are similar to that common ancestor are Ardipithecus and Austrolopithecus Afarensis both of which are basically upright walking chimpanzees.

  Just to get a sense of our of our distant relationship with them look at your foot and how it is designed. A true engineer like God is supossed to be would have given us hoofs like horses have but instead we have feet that bear a striking similarity with that of apes except that they can use theirs like a second pair of hands while ours is adapted, though not perfectly, for constant walking.

  When he mentioned "so far" did he mean that he believed in evolution so far as apes and other animals are concerned but not humans?

  2) "How come that from fossiles we have Human and after different species how did their supposed evolution being not be compleeted?"

  I believe that he is referring to the fallacy of perfection which states that if we evolved from an ape then those apes should be evolving into men as well. This is a fallacy because in evolution there is no goal just mutations that allow you to reproduce more than members of your species in a given enviroment.

  3) "who's the Author of the Big Bang?" An "author" is a person or a sentient being. While the deep processes of the Universe may be complex and too complex to be understood completely it does not necessarily follow that a god person is responsible. The Universe, and there are hints of a multiverse existing (multiverse is a universe of universes), is most probably a self assembling process. As I like to say when I'm in my poetic mood "Once upon a time before all time the Universe gave birth to Herself.

  That's as far as I'm going with evolution. I suggest that you focus on the contradictions in the Bible like, for example, the two versions of the 10 commandments with the second set being claiming to be identical to the first although it is obviously not (Exodus 20:1-17; Exodus 34:1-27).

  villabolo
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  Scully

  I would block his email address. It's rarely productive for an atheist and creationist to argue the origins of life. I have better things to do with my time, in fact, getting a root canal would be more productive than engaging this guy. But that's just me.
• 

  OUTLAW

  You were probably talking to one of these guys..

  

  Pic taken from Randys site "Free minds"..LOL!!

  (Sorry Randy,could`nt help myself..LOL!!)

  ..........................
• 

  drwtsn32

  Can evoluiton theory explain the cycle of the birth of a baby form the embryo stage to the human being?

  The growth of an organism from an embryotic stage to adulthood is not evolution. This guy clearly does not know much about evolution. Debating him is probably pointless. At the very least you need to debate one point at a time.

  The fact that science cannot explain (and may never be able to explain) what caused the big bang does not mean it's ok to jump to the "God did it!" explanation. The fact is adding "God" to the equation without empirical evidence merely compounds the problem of explaining the origins of the universe.