New Portuguese rendering of John 8:58 in Revised Edition NWT

by Wonderment 6 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Wonderment
    Wonderment

    Previous rendering of John 8:58:
    Jesus ldisse-hes : “Digo-vos em toda a verdade: Antes de Abraão vir à existência, eu tenho sido.”

    New rendering: Jesus lhes disse: “Digo-lhes com toda a certeza: Antes de Abraão vir à existência, eu já existia.”

    I am calling attention to the words in bold letters.

    The previous rendering: "I have been."

    The NEW reading: "I already existed." Or: "I was already existing."

    They went from a perfect indicative to the imperfect indicative (Pretérito imperfeito).

    Any comments?





  • _Morpheus
    _Morpheus
    I am really sorry but i am barely qualified to speak and comment on english. Anything i say regarding the translation in portugese would be uninformed and pointless. However, I will take a peek at the english, new and old, and see if i can offer something
  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    Wonderment,

    The new text makes a lot more sense. "Eu tenho sido" [I have been] is an odd way of wording it, possibly even borderline incorrect from a grammar point of view. [Because it begs the question: I have been - what?] The new wording doesn't change anything fundamental doctrinally and the wording is by far more natural with portuguese.

    Eden

  • wifibandit
    wifibandit

    Is this not the same scripture that WT got in trouble for using Johannes Greber (spirit medium) as a source in translation?!

    • New World Translation
    • Joh 8:58
    • Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”
    • Reference Bible
    • Joh 8:58
    • Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say toYOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”
    • Kingdom Interlinear
    • Joh 8:58
    • εἶπενSaid αὐτοῖςto them ἸησοῦςJesus ᾿ΑμὴνAmen ἀμὴνamen λέγωI am saying ὑμῖν,to YOU πρὶνBefore ᾿ΑβραὰμAbraham γενέσθαιto become ἐγὼI εἰμί.am.
    • Byington
    • Joh 8:58
    • Jesus said to them “Verily, verily I tell you, before there was an Abraham I am.”
    • American Standard Version
    • Joh 8:58
    • Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.
    • King James Version
    • Joh 8:58
    • Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
  • Wonderment
    Wonderment

    wifibandit:

    Is this not the same scripture that WT got in trouble for using Johannes Greber (spirit medium) as a source in translation?!

    That's a loaded question! The WTS did not base their translation on Greber's version. They merely quoted Greber as one scholar who rendered John 1:1 the same way as they did.

    What's the relevance of these other quotes from various versions of John 8:58 to the Portuguese version?

  • wifibandit
    wifibandit

    Three non JW translations and the Greek have it as : I AM.

    The JW versions show: I have been. Or I already was. if you translate from Portuguese (and I predict Spanish will have the same).

    This change is not a minor one if you look at it from the optic of those who think Jesus = I AM WHAT I AM.

    (sorry I don't explain things, I sneak posts on my phone. Wife is suspicious.)

  • Wonderment
    Wonderment

    wifibandit: "Three non JW translations and the Greek have it as : I AM. The JW versions show: I have been. Or I already was." "This change is not a minor one if you look at it from the optic of those who think Jesus = I AM WHAT I AM."

    One common misconception in Bible translation, is that to be faithful, one must transfer the original language sayings to the receptor language word-for-word. Not necessarily! Over all, one has to take into account the context, and whether there is an existing flag somewhere in the text that could point to another understanding. This is what happens with John 8:58.

    For example, Jesus said to Philip word-for-word in John 14.9: "So much time with you I am and not you have known me Philip?" Now, how should one to render this in standard English? Try it!

    As to the statement about those who think of Jesus as the "I am what I am." I cannot find that statement anywhere associated with Jesus Christ. But I did find that Paul, a Christian follower, said (that is, if we take his words out of context): "I am what I am." (1 Cor. 15:10) Isn't it ironic that we find Paul enunciating those words, yet there is no record of Jesus Christ ever saying those words? At most, we find Jesus saying "I am" with a variety of nuances.

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