"Gary-isms"

by garyneal 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    This is a new buzzword that my wife invented to label my way of thinking. Apparently, she is not very happy with my critically examining Watchtower teachings and calling out any inconsistencies that I see. Here are some examples of "Gary-ism:"

    At the last assembly, the brothers was giving us a warning about PORNOGRAPHY. Of all the things this brother could've warned us about, he chose pornography. Why did he single out pornography? I wrote this question down in my notes and when my wife saw it, she wrote above it "Gary-ism."

    My church engaged in something that I did not agree with. They spoke in tongues in turn with an interpreter. I e-mail both the pastor and associate pastor concerning this and the associate pastor pointed me to a lot of scripture concerning the practice. I looked over those verses but I haven't gotten back with him yet on my answer. My wife and I reasoned on it after the assembly and I will admit, the WT seems to have a view similar to mine own concerning this. But when I told my wife that the tongue speaking could've been inspired by the devil just as a member of the annointed class could've came under that impression by the devil, she called it "Gary-ism."

    So let me get this straight, when I have a doctrinal dispute with my church and look to the Bible for answers, I am a Berean. But when I have a doctrinal dispute with the Watchtower, it's "Gary-ism."

    Speaking of Bereans, apparently my wife did not know what a Berean Christian is. When I told her about them and how when Paul would bring a message, they would make sure it is in the sacred text before they accepted it. They would send Paul to the back of the church and Paul would say, "Amen brother." My wife would tell me that not only would I send Paul to the back of the church, I would send him home on his camel and tell him to check back in a month or so as I would look in the Bible and try to prove him wrong. This inspite of the fact that the Watchtower and I agree on the potential of misusing the gift of tongues and that I too believe it is more a divine gift to speak another language without studying it rather than speaking jibberish.

    As she and I would discuss doctrinal issues of the Watchtower, she would always say "Let the camel get his drink, Paul is still with us, right?" So silly, but it clearly shows that she just wants to keep drinking the kool-aid for if the Watchtower says it, it must be true.

    A few more "Gary-isms:"

    Why did the brother at the assembly give a talk about baptism in the holy spirit, then asked the baptismal candidates the same two questions baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the spirit directed organization? (This still gives me a chuckle...) If they are being baptised in the name of the Holy Spirit also, ask them that and leave the organization out of it.

    The doctrine of 1914 will be dropped. This is inevitable because the evidence for it gets weaker and weaker by the year. But according to my wife, the GB must know what they are talking about because surely they would not promote such a date without fully making sure of its accuracy, right? (I'm still waiting on the elder to provide me documentation proving this date.)

    The only thing more complicated than their blood doctrine is the U.S. tax code. If God is not a God of confusion, how can the Watchtower society come out with such a confusing and contradictory doctrine concerning the use of blood and claim it is from God?

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Keep those Gary-isms coming! :)

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    It would be funny if she wasn't serious.

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hello Gary,

    They spoke in tongues in turn with an interpreter. I e-mail both the pastor and associate pastor concerning this and the associate pastor pointed me to a lot of scripture concerning the practice. I looked over those verses but I haven't gotten back with him yet on my answer.

    OK, no doubt he pointed to the wealth of scripture that point to these things being for those who believe.

    My wife and I reasoned on it after the assembly and I will admit, the WT seems to have a view similar to mine own concerning this. But when I told my wife that the tongue speaking could've been inspired by the devil

    This is a WT-ism. Speaking in tongues is only by the Holy Spirit Acts 2:4 Acts 19:6 following Spirit baptism Matthew 3:11 Mark 1:8 Acts 1:5 Acts 8:16

    You need to be careful not to attribute the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil Matthew 12:31 Read the whole passage to get the picture.

    This inspite of the fact that the Watchtower and I agree on the potential of misusing the gift of tongues and that I too believe it is more a divine gift to speak another language without studying it rather than speaking jibberish.

    I am afraid this is another WT-ism. Speaking in tongues is my experience is almost always in a heavenly language, not and earthly one 1 Corinthians 13:1 1 Corinthians 14:2 In fact, I can only think of the earthly tongues being mentioned in Acts 2.

    Read the whole of this chapter again and listen to the Holy Spirit 1 Corinthians 14

    Blessings,

    Stephen

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    Thanks Stephen,

    You're right, it is WT-ism to think that tongue speaking is wholly inspired by the devil, the elder's wife certainly believes this. As for me, I just drew a parallel between those who believe the spirit inspired them to speak in unknown tongues and those who believe that the spirit annoints them into the 144,000 ruling class in how it may be possible that the devil could be inspiring some of those individuals in both cases.

    I have been looking at the scriptures that the associated pastor pointed out and it does appear that the scriptures could be interpreted in the way that they have done it where one person speaks in an unknown tongue and another interprets. At the same time, I can also see how the passages could be interpreted so that tongues are really the divine power to speak another language without formally studying it. The Jehovah's Witnesses are not the only people who hold this view of tongues.

    However, even if my pastor's interpretation of tongues is correct there are times, I believe, where this gift could be abused and the inspiration may not have come from God. For example:

    Tongue speaker: jibberish, jibberish, jibberish, jibberish
    Interpreter: Please continue to give your tithes to the Lord. Our church needs your gifts in order to continue to be a light to the world. Remember God wants your full ten percent of your wages, your first fruits. Give, and He will bless you, give because it is God's commandment. YOU DO WANT TO PLEASE GOD, right? But what if you say you barely have enough to support your family? Oh ye of little faith, remember the widow's offering in Luke 21:1-4. Give all you have and the Lord will bless you with abundance. If you are too concerned about your circumstances, you are not concerning yourself enough with serving the Lord.

    Laying on the guilt trip just as the Watchtower does. Can you not see the parallel between this inspiration and the 'inspired' preaching of the Watchtower where the witnesses believe that the answers to all of life's problems comes solely from attending more meetings, going out in more field service, pray more, do more for Jehovah, and contribute to the worldwide preaching work? I want to support my church, but not under coercion. Remember, the Lord loves a cheerful giver (2 Corinthians 9:7). Can we be certain that the inspiration for this interpretation is truly from God or maybe it is the pastor's concern about the dwindling funds coming into the church. (By the way, this inspiration to give till it hurts did not come from my church, it is just an illustration.)

    Now here is the parallel between the tongue speaker and the Watchtower's teaching of the 144,000 that I pointed out to the elder's wife. Remember, only members of the 'annointed class' can be appointed to the Governing Body. Therefore, what if an individual gets the impression that he or she is of the 'annointed' but, in this case, that impression came not from God but from the devil? If this person climbs the ranks of the Watchtower and someday gets appointed to the governing body, would the devil not be influencing and/or possibly even directing the governing body? When I posed this scenario to the elder's wife, she said that this would not happen because this individual would not be acting in accordance with the Bible.

    Please bear in mind that I am not saying that this is what is happening for I am not going to be presumptuous and state that the Watchtower's governing body is under the influence of Satan. I am also not going to be presumptuous and say that the tongue speaker is being inspired by the devil. In short, I don't know in either case however, Raymond Franz's book "Crisis of Consious" is an eye-opener concerning the governing body's 'inspirations.'

    We must always continue to test the spirits and hold fast to what is truth because many false prophets have gone out into the world (1 John 4:1). We're quick to call the Watchtower a false prophet, in spite of the fact that they believe they are guided by 'spirit annointed' Christians, because we test them against the Bible. Let's make sure we do the same thing with the tongue speakers and their interpreters. I will continue to consult the Bible and pray and ask for direction from God's Holy Spirit on this for there is a lot of confusion regarding the gift of tongues. Personally, I would rather edify the church by reading or quoting passages from the Bible as the Holy Spirit guides me to rather than speak 50 words in an unknown tongue. This would seem to parallel Paul's remarks in 1 Corinthians 14:19. I believe that the passages concerning orderly worship should be followed very carefully (1 Corinthians 14:26-40).

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    With regard to tongues and interpretation, I have seen a tongue brought, and the interpretation come.

    What I have noticed where there is a strong gifting is that the interpretation matches the tongue sentence for sentence, the whole flow of the interpretation matches the revelation. What is important that the revelation beings the "deep conviction" of the Holy Spirit which leads to application and change.

    Remember, tongues+interpretation=prophecy (in one form)

    We are to desire all the spiritual gifts, especially prophecy 1 Corinthians 14:1

    OK tithing.

    Giving is under grace, not the law. No man should compel you 2 Corinthians 9:7 , only the Holy Spirit convict 1 Thessalonians 1:5

    The bible tells you to test God in it and abundant provision will come :) Malachi 3:10

    Please bear in mind that I am not saying that this is what is happening for I am not going to be presumptuous and state that the Watchtower's governing body is under the influence of Satan.

    Look out for the fruit of the WT Matthew 12:33 Listen carefully to their words Luke 6:45 Test the spirits Galatians 5:21-22

    This is an important passage 1 Timothy 4

    Blessings,

    Stephen

  • GromitSK
    GromitSK

    Why would a speaking in tongue translation match the English word for word? That does not sound logical to me. I may be wrong but I would think there are few languages whose structure is the same as English but using simply different words? To be honest this "speaking in heavenly tongues" business sounds like a cop out to me. Gibberish is gibberish. Who is to say that the so-called translator isnt just making it up? They may as well just speak in English rather than some unknown language that nobody can validate.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    My wife would tell me that not only would I send Paul to the back of the church, I would send him home on his camel and tell him to check back in a month or so as I would look in the Bible and try to prove him wrong.

    That's a Gary's-wife-ism" or a "Mrs. Gary-ism."
    YOU WOULD SEND PAUL HOME ON HIS CAMEL?

    When did Paul have a camel?

    I would "ism" her responses to your thoughts.

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    GromitSK Why would a speaking in tongue translation match the English word for word?

    It didn't! You need to read my post again ("sentence for sentence").

    The thing that really got my attention was the same inflection in the interpretation as the tongue. I had no doubt I was hearing the Spirit bring the same revelation and interpretation through different parts of the body 1 Corinthians 12

    Anyhow get in a charismatic church and see it in action for yourself. It is a sign to unbelievers 1 Corinthians 14:22

    Blessings,

    Stephen

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