"1914", a perspective.

by Chalam 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hi,

    When I first talking to JWs I noticed this whole date thingy. For example, one of the first JWs I spoke to told me "Satan was cast out of heaven in 1914".

    All I could think was "where did they get that from?!". It just seemed totally absurd. Jesus said this about 1900 years before that date.

    Luke 10:18 (New International Version)

    18 He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

    Isaiah said this about 2600 years earlier

    Isaiah 14:12 (New International Version)

    12 How you have fallen from heaven,
    O morning star, son of the dawn!
    You have been cast down to the earth,

    you who once laid low the nations!

    Now I know a little more about the JWs, dates like "1914" are just symptomatic of how they swallow everything the WT feeds them hook, line and sinker.

    Yes, the WT are supply "spiritual food" all day long but it is wise to check what one is eating.

    The WT food might look good but look inside and it rotten to the core and will give you a bad stomach and ultimately bring disease and death.

    All the best,

    Stephen

  • Alwayshere
    Alwayshere

    Hi Chalam, I think Isaiah 14:12 is speaking of Babylon but Luke 10:18 does say Satan has already fallen. Their own Bible says "I begin to behold Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven." But they have to believe 1914 was when it happened. They can't disagree or they will be labeled an Apostate.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Yeah, that teaching, taken at face value, should cause much resentment.

    Why unload HIS problem on us?

    Sylvia

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    Christ began to rule God’s kingdom when he ascended to heaven after his crucifixion in the first century. He did not wait to rule until 1914 right before he descended to earth invisibly. This is made all the more evident by John when he referred to the resurrected Jesus as the then “Ruler of the kings of the earth,” that is, during the first century (Rev. 1:5 NWT). Accordingly, the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ claim that “… in 1914 Christ began ruling as King,” is incorrect (Great Man, ch. 132, 3).

    Without any scriptural support the Jehovah’s Witnesses also assume Satan was not hurled out of heaven until 1914 and attempt to attach the establishment of God’s kingdom to this event as well.

    The establishment of God’s kingdom is here associated with the hurling of Satan out of heaven. This had not occurred at the time of rebellion in Eden, as is shown in Job chapters 1, 2. Revelation was recorded in 96 C.E., and Revelation 1:1 shows that it deals with events then future. (Reasoning, 233)

    It appears they have failed to identify the proper issues. We are dealing with the New Testament, not the Old Testament, and any references to the book of Job are irrelevant. And even though Revelation might have been recorded in 96 A.D., their claim that Revelation deals only with then-future events is mistaken. Chapter 12 is obviously a flashback in time referring to Christ’s birth, death, resurrection and ascension to heaven. That he took the throne of God’s kingdom in verses 10 and 11 in the first century and not the 20th century is clear by the description of the persecution of the woman who gave birth to Christ, and the woman’s offspring - the Church of Christian believers.

    3 And another sign was seen in heaven, and, look! a great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and upon its heads seven diadems; 4 and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth. And the dragon kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth, that, when she did give birth, it might devour her child.

    5 And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was caught away to God and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days.

    7 And war broke out in heaven: Mi´cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. 10 And I heard a oud voice in heaven say:

    “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! 11 And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death. 12 On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.”

    13 Now when the dragon saw that it was hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman that gave birth to the male child. 14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given the woman, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place; there is where she is fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent.

    15 And the serpent disgorged water like a river from its mouth after the woman, to cause her to be drowned by the river. 16 But the earth came to the woman’s help, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river that the dragon disgorged from its mouth. 17 And the dragon grew wrathful at the woman, and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus. (Rev. 12:3-17 NWT)

    Satan and the Roman empire did not wait until 1914 to wage war against Christians but did so, viciously, beginning in the first century. Accordingly, not only did salvation, power, God’s kingdom and Christ’s authority come before Christian persecution began, but the hurling of Satan to earth associated with the so-called 1914 kingdom happened at Christ’s ascension or thereabouts before the onslaught of Christian persecution, not 1,900 years later.

    Sixth, the Jehovah’s Witnesses have gone to great length to push God’s kingdom and the kingdom’s priesthood, and the events of Revelation 11:15, 12:10, and others, into the 20th and 21st century. As stated, they believe “Revelation was recorded in 96 B.C.E. and Rev 1:1 shows it deals with events then future” (Reasoning, 233), but this is simply not true. Revelation by no means speaks exclusively of future events but includes past and then-current events. And, as just mentioned, Revelation 12:4, 5 recounts the birth of Christ and his ascension to God and His throne, all of which occurred more than fifty years prior to the book’s writing.

    http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-2.html#IV

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Some JW's view that pasage from Luke as a "prophesy" of what comes to happen in Revelation with Michael AKA Jesus doing the deed.

    Of course that would mean that the time of Revelation started in 1914 and would also mean that Jesus, in Luke, even though he was speaking in the past, was really seeing the future to happen, which would mean that writer of Luke (Luke?) didn't know Jesus was prophesing or he would have mentioned it.

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hello AH,

    I think Isaiah 14:12 is speaking of Babylon

    See the verses 13 and 14 which clearly speak of Lucifer.

    Isaiah 14:12-14 (New International Version)

    12 How you have fallen from heaven,
    O morning star, son of the dawn!
    You have been cast down to the earth,
    you who once laid low the nations!

    13 You said in your heart,
    "I will ascend to heaven;
    I will raise my throne
    above the stars of God;
    I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
    on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.

    14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
    I will make myself like the Most High."

    Of course, Satan is the virtual king of Babylon, the ungodly city, mentioned in the chapter.

    All the best,

    Stephen

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Here's some more verses that were written on the matter approx 1400 years before 1914!

    Ezekiel 28:13

    Listen to this passage

    13 You were in Eden,
    the garden of God;
    every precious stone adorned you:
    ruby, topaz and emerald,
    chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
    sapphire, [ a ] turquoise and beryl. [ b ]
    Your settings and mountings [ c ] were made of gold;
    on the day you were created they were prepared.

    Footnotes:
    1. Ezekiel 28:13 Or lapis lazuli
    2. Ezekiel 28:13 The precise identification of some of these precious stones is uncertain.
    3. Ezekiel 28:13 The meaning of the Hebrew for this phrase is uncertain.

    New International Version (NIV)

    Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by Biblica

    Ezekiel 28:17

    Listen to this passage

    17 Your heart became proud
    on account of your beauty,
    and you corrupted your wisdom
    because of your splendor.
    So I threw you to the earth;
    I made a spectacle of you before kings.

    All the best,

    Stephen

  • Alwayshere
    Alwayshere

    Guess we are not seeing it alike. Isaiah 14: 15-23 sounds like Babylon to me. But it doesn't matter, We both know WTS is a cult.

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