where does the literal end and the symbolic begin with JW's

by kriptonian7 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  kriptonian7

  Im looking for some new insight on some thoughts of mine. Jw's do not beleive in Hell. Hell fire is symbolic i was always taught. its sybolic meaning burned to ash, forever dead, nothing left. people are not tormented in a firery pit, they will just be no more like when you burn something....ok

  great...made sense to me

  Now when you get into the revelations, suddenly everything becomes literal. Only a certain number go to heaven , we will live forever in paradise on earth, the dead reserected. ect... Too mnay things jsut seem to be made convenient for sake of argument.

  Just as some examples. I have been looking around on the itnernet trying to find points in time where desicions were made and how they came to the conclusions of what things in the bible were to be taken literallyand which ones were to be taken as a symbolism. Does that make sense?

  Even some of the kid stories seem like they are more symbolic in nature than an actual occurance. Moses and the snakes (by the way confused the hell outta me as a kid because wasnt the snake he made them look at a form of idol??), donkies talking to angels.

  thanks peeps
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  IronHill

  Interesting...its something i've asked myself about the witness beliefs in Revelation. How do they know which visions are symbolic and which aren't. The beasts, and angels and trumpets, etc..all are of symbolic meaning. But then we have to take the 144,000 number literally?

  It doesn't make sense...
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  AllTimeJeff

  Yes, yes and yes.

  JW's are all about convenient dogma. The course of least mental resistance.

  ANY and all religions with their dogma, whether you consider them cults or traditional religions, will run into problems with the bible, simply because there are a wide variety of passages that do conflict and even contradict. Many religions take the less evil path of simply saying passages regarding for example, the stoning of a rebellious child, while instructive, do not apply today. (whew!)

  JW's have major credibility problems, because of their A) Prophecies B) Related prophetic numerology (those pesky Gentile Times) C) The fact that as a relatively young religion founded in the later part of the 19th century, both A and B have changed as a matter of convenience when proved wrong. D) It's easier to understand, and more accurate to say, that NOT A DAMN THING JW's have predicted has come true.

  Thus, the ability to fluidly switch between "symbolic" and "literal" is merely a matter of convenience for them.

  You alluded to the 144,000 as the only number that JW's think is literal in Revelation. (imagine that, an old man receiving visions about the future, filled with wild beasts, dragons, and whores, and somehow, JW's got it right that the only thing to take literally is the 144,000. I wish I had their shrunken testicle self esteem...) It's one of my favorite examples of JW dogma hypocrisy.
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  jonathan dough

  http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html
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  LockedChaos

  When you answers are preconceived

  it is a very simple matter to find written

  verse to prove your point ar dogma

  That's how they came up with the

  current bible cannon

  Worked with them

  Works for anybody
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  kurtbethel

  I have noticed that they develop doctrine in a backward manner.

  The usual way to get doctrine is to study scripture, in context and with history in consideration, then derive beliefs from what it says.

  The WT method is to invent eloborate doctrines and then go fishing in scriptures for isolated verses that support the doctrine. Most of these verses poorly fit the doctrine, with many of them contradicting it when viewed in context. The literal/symbolic ploy is a technique to help force fit the doctrine with the scripture. They do not realize how buffoonish it makes their "scholarship" appear to be.
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  JWoods

  Maybe one of the most truly ridiculous examples is the so-called "Seven Trumpet Blasts" fulfillment which ultimately meant some angry speeches at a long-forgotten convention.
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  Son of Man

  Pick out one topic because what you have stated can cover many. Like for instance lets begin with the beginning, Adam and Eve. Is the fruit they ate of symbolic or literal?

  This has been brought out before where as death is a condition and it was thrown into the lake of fire therefore the fire is symbolic. Wickedness will be put to death forever is true as only righteousness will dwell in The Kingdom of GOD.

  t.f.d.s.
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  Chalam

  Hi,

  OK, debunking the WT falsehood. Looks like you have made a start :)

  Here's some more clues

  Im looking for some new insight on some thoughts of mine. Jw's do not beleive in Hell. Hell fire is symbolic i was always taught. its sybolic meaning burned to ash, forever dead, nothing left. people are not tormented in a firery pit, they will just be no more like when you burn something....ok

  great...made sense to me

  Unfortunately and millions of other JWs :(

  Now when you get into the revelations, suddenly everything becomes literal. Only a certain number go to heaven , we will live forever in paradise on earth, the dead reserected. ect... Too mnay things jsut seem to be made convenient for sake of argument.

  Agreed. The WT plays the symbolic card when it suits them, especially in regards to the revelation in visionary form such as found in Daniel and Revelation.

  However, start elsewhere. Jesus is always a good place.

  Matthew 10:28 (New International Version)

  28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

  Jesus makes it clear, there is something beyond just the destruction of the body. He is speaking of the second death Revelation 20 Isaiah 66:24 As you have seen, the bible speaks of something quite different to the annihilation of the body that the WT teach.

  Or the story of the beggar Lazarus and the rich man? Luke 16:19-31

  Both die and Lazarus goes to be with Abraham (who is also dead) and were separated from the rich man who was in hell. They were fully conscious and conversing. The rich man was in torment in the fire.

  There is no mention of this being a parable. The chapter starts with one but this story is directly proceeded with non parabolic teaching in verse 16-18.

  Just as some examples. I have been looking around on the itnernet trying to find points in time where desicions were made and how they came to the conclusions of what things in the bible were to be taken literallyand which ones were to be taken as a symbolism. Does that make sense?

  Even some of the kid stories seem like they are more symbolic in nature than an actual occurance. Moses and the snakes (by the way confused the hell outta me as a kid because wasnt the snake he made them look at a form of idol??), donkies talking to angels.

  Sure, this the paranormal is not everyday stuff or else by definition it would be normal. That said, nothing is too hard for God, after all He made the universe.

  Blessings,

  Stephen

  P.S. Expect a post from the poster designs before too long!
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  peacedog

  The gb simply looks at a given verse and then decides whether it can be of most use to them interpreted literally or symbolically. It's as simple as that.

  Any verse that would cause doctrinal problems interpreted literally is, of course, interpreted symbolically. Consider "this generation". Once it became problematic, the word was reinterpreted in a symbolic sense.