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by acolytes 5 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  acolytes

  Hi Stephen

  Without the mathmatical gymnastics of"A day for a year "Adam did not die on the day he ate the forbidden fruit.

  Had he been aware of the consequences of his actions then possibly he could be held accountable to some degree.

  According to my understanding of the account Adam did nothing wrong. Mans inhumanity to man and the senceless tragities in the world are fully accountable to God. Blaming a serpent or Adam or Eve makes no rational sence to me.

  Now the reasons for a loving God being accountable for such injustice is beyound my comprehension.

  If it is possible that you can clarify my thinking and offer a view point I have over looked I would appreciate it-

  I have concluded that the story is perhaps nothing more than good fiction.

  Acolytes
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  alanv

  Icolytes, I'm really glad you brought this topic up. I have thought for a long time 'am I the only one who finds this strange'. To believe that an apparantly loving God would allow all the pain and suffering there has been throughout the ages because of one man's apparant mistake, is absolutely ridiculous. It doesn't matter if there is a hope for the future or not what human father would put their son or daughter through all the bad that has happened to people over the years. This has never made any sense to me.
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  glenster

  I think it refers to a belief that God let people go on with free will and
  common human selfishness. As the one who presides over it all, God is responsi-
  ble for letting it happen and people for doing what they do. The aspect of
  God's responsibility isn't the whole responsibility to see but is an important
  part of it, and it also comes up in the mainstream view of Jesus.

  The mainstream view is that God's punishment extended to the descendants--all
  future people would be Adam and Eve types--of free will, inherent sin, and would
  die. Mankind fell from God's graces. The best they could do was atone for
  their bad choices, but not make up for the rest nor was it their place to--the
  rest was caused by what God made them to be. The one who made them that way
  would reconcile people to Himself on the cross--for belief in him, people would
  be counted as sinless, etc.

  The JWs leaders' version has it that God's justice required that he punish
  all descendants for what Adam (actually two people) did. The descendants (who
  hadn't made themselves of inherent sin and who'd die) could make up for the resty
  (that they really weren't responsible for) by believing in God having archangel
  Michael (who had no part in the thing on either end) sent to be sacrificed.

  Either way, it's a faith commitment concern, but I always thought the JWs
  leaders' version made for a strange court case. If I was Michael, I'd complain:
  "You made them that way and want me to go down there and do WHAT?! Oh, no--you
  did this--you take care of it."

  The pain and suffering: overlooking that of it caused by people as their free
  will choice, the best perspective on what to make of God and that is to take the
  idea of Job's outlook then see it with or without God. Either way, the best you
  can do is look at all the bad things of the world and be glad for your shot at
  it and what good you found in it, like love between people, etc. To character-
  ize it as all bad or all good would be wrong. If you add God to Job's outlook,
  it's like that, to be gald for your shot at life, etc, not for an all-beneficent
  God any more than for a perfect Godless world or we'd all live in heavenly
  circumstances forever.
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  possible-san

  Hi, acolytes.

  This is the information from the book "What Pastor Russell Said" (1916/1917).
  Russell (the founder of JW) said like this.

  ADAM--Why Given Second Trial?
  
  Q6:2:: QUESTION (1909)--2--
  If Adam has had a trial and failed, will he have another and if so, what for?
  Why should he be resurrected if he failed in the first trial?

  ANSWER.--
  The reason that he is to have a resurrection
  and another trial is because God willed it so, and that is the
  very best reason. Now, if you want to know why, we may do
  some guessing, perhaps, to our advantage.
  I think the reason God willed it so is that in some respects
  Adam did not have a trial under the most favorable conditions
  that God could have arranged, although his trial was a just trial.
  He was fully equipped mentally,
  but a great temptation came to him, and because of the lack of
  experience he failed. AWhat was the trial or temptation?
  You remember that the Apostle tells us that Adam was not
  deceived; he knew what he was doing, that he was eating the
  forbidden fruit, violating God's command, and that it meant
  death. There was no ignorance about it. Why did he do it? I
  think the narrative bears out the thought that he did it because
  of sympathetic love. He had been without a wife, and while
  the various kinds of birds could twitter, and the other animals
  make some commotion, such were not satisfactory to man, so
  after God gave him a wife, bone of his bone, and flesh of his
  flesh, and he had enjoyed that sweet companionship, and he
  realized that he would lose her and that he would be alone
  again after she disobeyed, he said, I will eat with her and die
  with her. If she must go out in the unprepared earth and die, so
  will I. So, really this is a very noble feature of the first man's
  character, and the condition of his trial, you will see, made it a
  very severe trial. Now, then, I think it would be just like our
  Heavenly Father to say: Adam, at the time you did that, you
  did not know fully what I could or would do for you, and what
  you might have had at that time if you had been obedient.
  Now, Adam, I intend to redeem you and all your race. You
  will have a demonstration of my love, and after you have
  learned of the height and depth and length and breadth of my
  love, I will expect you to fully and perfectly keep my law and
  live forever, but if you do not obey, then you will die the
  second death and will never have another opportunity for
  restitution.

  http://www.a2z.org/wtarchive/docs/1916_What_Pastor_Russell_Said.pdf
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  possible-san

  Now, I cannot do edit by the error of this forum.

  I add the next explanation.
  "That his explanation differs from the doctrine which current Jehovah's Witnesses believe."
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  be wise

  acolytes

  sounds like you've nearly got things tied up

  What if Adam and Eve - driven by a catalyst

  made a choice independant of GOD

  PEACE

  be wise