by Elsewhere 9 Replies latest jw friends
I seem to recall reading a bible verse many years ago that basically said that anyone who speaks against slavery is evil and condemned by god.
I have spent a lot of time digging around the internet looking for it but can't seem to find it. To be honest I'm starting to doubt my memory as to whether or not the verse even exists!
Would anyone happen to know this verse or if my memory is wrong?
Thanks in advance!
Elsewhere:
While I too do not recall such a verse existing (nor do I believe that such a verse exists), there is a verse that says just the opposite. What you describe seems, to me, to be something a slaveowner would say and promote. However, please note: Deuteronomy 23:15, which states:
"Don't return a runaway slave to his master; he's come to you for refuge. Let him live wherever he wishes within the protective gates of your city. Don't take advantage of him."
While slavery was permitted in the biblical context, as you can see from this verse, it did not include the brutality as demonstrated by fallen and brutal men. Actually, if truth be told, the slavery "by Israel" mentioned in the bible was regulated by the Law of Jah given to Moses for Israel so, that brutality did not figure into Israel's treatment of the slave.
No doubt this verse above, was not read from the pulpits of the various churches of the deep South during the days of its slavery. It is no wonder that the slaveowners of the time did not want their slaves to learn to read.
--Inkie
Elsewhere, try Colossians and Ephesians wherein slaves are admonished to be in subjection to their masters, the good ones as well as the bad.
Also, Romans 13 and 1 Corinthians 7:21-24.
No doubt this verse above, was not read from the pulpits of the various churches of the deep South during the days of its slavery. It is no wonder that the slaveowners of the time did not want their slaves to learn to read.
Amen.
I'll bet this one was disregarded, too.
Exodus 21:16 "If someone kidnaps a person, the penalty is death, regardless of whether the person has been sold or is still held in possession. MSG
Sylvia
> brutality did not figure into Israel's treatment of the slave.
Sorry, I have to disagree with that.
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave.
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
The point of my bringing up the topic is to illustrate that the bible does not promote a "nice" form of slavery.
I don't believe any form of slavery is "nice."
However, imo, the Bible realistically deals with an ugly aspect of human existence until the "time of restitution" or restoration.
Sylvia
Inkie:
"Don't return a runaway slave to his master; he's come to you for refuge. Let him live wherever he wishes within the protective gates of your city. Don't take advantage of him."
While slavery was permitted in the biblical context, as you can see from this verse, it did not include the brutality as demonstrated by fallen and brutal men. Actually, if truth be told, the slavery "by Israel" mentioned in the bible was regulated by the Law of Jah given to Moses for Israel so, that brutality did not figure into Israel's treatment of the slave.
villabolo:
Inkie, the verse you quoted stands IN CONTRADICTION to other verses where the Bible regulations concerning slavery were brutal. Those verses which supporters cite in favor of making the Bible seem enlightened were actually a law of barbarians. For example:
20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. (Exodus 21:20,21 KJV)
So, the master could beat the crap out of his slave but only punished if the beating was so severe that it killed him/her within a day or two. What if it took five days for the slave to die?
22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
26 "If a man hits a manservant or maidservant in the eye and destroys it, he must let the servant go free to compensate for the eye. 27 And if he knocks out the tooth of a manservant or maidservant, he must let the servant go free to compensate for the tooth. (Exodus 21:22-27)
It becomes obvious that in this "non-brutal" slavemongering theocracy that the master could get away with any beating so long as it was aimed below the neck and did not kill him within a day or two. And if the "non-brutal" master overstepped his rights just a little bit by knocking his slaves eye or tooth out halelujah! He has to set his slave free but don't anyone dare suggest that the master's eye or tooth be taken out. That is only a punishment amongst equals. Isn't the Bible so wonderful?
And by the way, why should God bother to write "Don't return a runaway slave to his master; he's come to you for refuge. Let him live wherever he wishes within the protective gates of your city. Don't take advantage of him." (Deuteronomy 23:15,16) ? Arrangements were already made for Hebrew slaves to be liberated every seventh year (Exodus 21:2-6) except for the wife and children of the slave who were obligated to remain with the master if he had acquired her for h
Are you refering to Canaan and his descendents. This scripture was used to justify slavery over the centuries as it was said the black race came through Ham and subsequently Canaan.
20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded [a] to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's nakedness and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father's nakedness. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father's nakedness.
24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said,
"Cursed be Canaan!
The lowest of slaves
will he be to his brothers."
26 He also said,
"Blessed be the LORD, the God of Shem!
May Canaan be the slave of Shem. [b]
27 May God extend the territory of Japheth [c] ;
may Japheth live in the tents of Shem,
and may Canaan be his [d] slave."
Paul
Romans 13: 1 Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. 2 Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment to themselves. NWT
I faintly remember the WT using this in an article to condemn protests and demonstrations.
Sylvia
As evidenced by the over 30,000 Christian denominations, you can pretty much pull what ever belief you want out of the Bible and claim it as inspired from God...which pretty much proves the fallibility of the book as Holy or God's word.
If it is God's Word, then God is falliable and not reliable. If it's not God's infalliable word, then why bother putting so much stock in it?
Sylvia: Amen to your Amen.
Elsewhere: I am speaking of the physical brutality that fallen men promote as though they are righteous in the doing of that brutality. While indeed, I do see your point about a slave who has been beaten and survives the beating, do you, in your mind, in this day, honestly think that Jah condones such actions? Do you? I don’t think so. Would Christ have behaved in such a way? Come on? Really? Isn’t Christ the exact representation of Jah’s being? If you answer, No, Christ would not behave or condone such treatment, then know too neither would Jah condone such brutality, especially considering that Jah Himself told Israel that they should “love” the alien resident—not to mention their own brothers. Also remember, that just as slaveowners of the Deep South during the time of its slavery were professed Christians, so too, the Hebrews were professed worshippers of Jah, who had a gross historical record of their rebellion against Jah, as well as misrepresenting His instructions to them. We can’t truly go by what is written in the Bible to describe what Jah approves or disapproves of—not really. Go to Christ. Christ will tell you. ‘What He whispers in your ear, you can shout from the rooftops.’
You are correct, the Bible does not promote a “nice” form of slavery. But neither is the Bible God’s Word--written or otherwise.
--Inkie
