He Forgives and Forgets!

by wannabe 6 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • wannabe
    wannabe

    He Forgives and Forgets!

    How many times have we heard it said: "I'll foregive, but I won't forget?" Would we say that's the kind of foregiveness Jehovah wishes for us to extend? To not forget some wrong done to us, would that not mean that we're still harboring some resentment, for that wrong done to us? If it's still in your mind, because you're not forgetting it, would you not still be brooding over it? Wouldn't true foregiveness, from our hearts, mean, that we've wiped the wrong done, out of our minds, so that it's completly forgotten about? Things are now as they were before the wrong was done? When we personally, ourselves, need foregiveness for something that we've done wrong to someone else, perhaps even a very close friend; would we be happy at hearing: "Yes!" I'll forgive you, but I won't forget it." Would there not always be, uncertainty about whether the friendship is still as it was before? Perhaps much discomfort while associating together?

    Jesus gave a parable that underscored the need for foregiveness from the heart in the following words:

    23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

    26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

    28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.

    29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'

    30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.

    32"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34 In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

    35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart." {Matthew 18:23-35NIV}

    So, foregiving but not forgetting would not, in the least, be favorable to Jehovah. To harbour something in your mind, is not foregiveness from the heart, now is it?

    How far was this foregiveness we are supposed to extend to go?

    This next scripture will answer that:

    3 "So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. 4 If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him." 5 The apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith!" {Luke 17:3-5 NIV}

    I know! That's a bit of a stinger, isn't it? There should be no end to the foregiveness we extend, as long as repentance for the bad act is shown. Of course true repentence requires works that befits repentence. So the one seeking foregiveness must give evidence that he/she is truly sorry for the wrong act done to us,and prove that repentence by their works, as in the following:

    20 "First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds."{Acts 26:20 NIV}

    8 "Produce fruit in keeping with repentance."{Matthew 3:8 NIV}

    Much more than a simple apology is needed, from that.

    As sinful humans we may have great trouble in foregiving the wrongs of others, but the one who expects us to forgive others set the greatest example of foregiveness, anyone might imagine; as seen from this account in Acts:

    13 "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go. 14 You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you. 15 You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this. 16 By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus' name and the faith that comes through him that has given this complete healing to him, as you can all see.

    17"Now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders. 18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Christ would suffer. 19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 20 and that he may send the Christ, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus." {Acts 3:13-20 NIV}

    These ones Peter was talking to, had murdered the Christ, the Son of God, and yet in Jehovah's great mercy, foregiveness was extended to them, even for the murder of God's Son. They were offered opportunity to repent so as to get their sins wiped away.

    Does that not show the depth of God's Mercy? Do we sometimes feel unworthy, perhaps thinking; "Oh! I'm not good enough! Jehovah will never foregive all my sins!" If he could foregive the murder of his dear Son, who he loved so very much, and had to watch him die a cruel death, for the sake of all of us, would he with-hold his foregiveness from someone who really wanted his foregiveness, and displayed repentence for his/her sins? Never would he with-hold his foregiveness, after offering his only Son to save our lives. That flys in the face of all reason, does it not?

    Look what he tells us in Isaiah the Prophet:

    18 "Come now, let us reason together, saith Jehovah: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." {Isaiah 1:18 DT}

    Does that sound like a God who is unforegiving?

    Do we believe that Jehovah doesn't know we will fall into sin at times? We shouldn't believe that because he knows we will, and has as much has said so in the following verse of scripture:

    20 "Not a single person on earth is always good and never sins." {Ecclesiastes 7:20 NLT} Do you have some weakness of the flesh that causes you to sin from time, to time? Don't feel bad! Don't we all? Didn't the Apostle Paul chosen for the heavenly high calling? Consider his words, and see if you can relate to Paul, and what he says in the following: By the way, the entire human race can relate to Paul, if that is, they are as honest as he was here:

    15 "I don’t really understand myself, for I want to do what is right, but I don’t do it. Instead, I do what I hate. 16 But if I know that what I am doing is wrong, this shows that I agree that the law is good. 17 So I am not the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.

    18 And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can’t. 19 I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. 20 But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.

    21 I have discovered this principle of life—that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. 22 I love God’s law with all my heart. 23 But there is another power within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me." {Romans 7:15-23 NLT}

    Did you pick up on what Paul said? There was a power within him, at War with his mind, leading him as a Slave to sin. How does that power come to be, in the first place, since all of us can relate to what Paul said here? Note the following:

    12 "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, in this way death spread to all men, because all sinned." {Romans 5:12 HCSB}

    23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." {Romans 3:23 HCSB}

    Does anyone suppose that Jehovah doesn't know about Mans sinful condition? Who has told us all of this thus far? These are not my own words; they are the inspired words of Jehovah God letting us all know that he knows whats wrong with all of Mankind, and he's taken measures to correct it by sending his only Son to die for all of us, so that the sin will be overcome, and we all might have abundant life, as was his original, purpose, in the garden of eden. Consisdering everything thus far, do we suppose that Jehovah watches our every move looking for the times we do sin? Why would he? He already knows we will, and do. He's as much as told us all that, has he not? Note what the Psalmist has to say about these errors we will make:

    3-4 If you, God, kept records on wrongdoings,
    who would stand a chance?
    As it turns out, forgiveness is your habit,
    and that's why you're worshiped." {Psalm 130:3TM}

    Jehovah is here telling us that if he recorded every wrongdoing that people may commit, no one would be able to stand. None would stand a chance, at life. If we believe we are sinful, look what King David had to say about his own sins:

    4 "For my sins have flooded over my head;
    they are a burden too heavy for me to bear." {Psalm 38:4HCSB}

    12 "For troubles surround me—
    too many to count!
    My sins pile up so high
    I can’t see my way out.
    They outnumber the hairs on my head.
    I have lost all courage." {Psalm 40:12 NLT}

    What did King David do when he had sinned? The following:

    5 "Finally, I confessed all my sins to you
    and stopped trying to hide my guilt.
    I said to myself, "I will confess my rebellion to the Lord."
    And you forgave me! All my guilt is gone." {Psalm 32:5 NLT}

    Can we do any less than David did? What happens when we do that? Jehovah forgave David for his honest confession. Why then will he not forgive us, when we sin, and we will!? The following shows us he definitely will:

    9 "He will not constantly accuse us,
    nor remain angry forever.
    10 He does not punish us for all our sins;
    he does not deal harshly with us, as we deserve.
    11 For his unfailing love toward those who fear him
    is as great as the height of the heavens above the earth.
    12 He has removed our sins as far from us
    as the east is from the west.
    13 The Lord is like a father to his children,
    tender and compassionate to those who fear him.
    14 For he knows how weak we are;
    he remembers we are only dust." Psalm 103: 9-14 NLT}

    After reading that, how could we ever doubt Jehovah will forgive us when we fall into sin as King David did, and of course will at times. Everyone does! How do we know that when Jehovah forgives he forgets? Bacause of the following:

    34 "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah; for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith Jehovah: for I will pardon their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more."{Jeremiah 31:34 DT}

    Those that feel that they are righteous, and really don't need foregivness, might well remember the words of Jesus, when he said:

    11 "When the Pharisees saw this, they asked His disciples, "Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?"

    12 But when He heard this, He said, "Those who are well don't need a doctor, but the sick do. 13 Go and learn what this means: I desire mercy and not sacrifice. For I didn't come to call the righteous, but sinners" {Matthew 9 :11-14 HCSB}

    I can say in all honesty! I fill the Bill here! How about you? I need that mercy as badly as anyone does! I need my sins forgiven and forgotten, and like the God that I worship, I'm willing to forgive and forget, as he does! So should you be! Should you not? Wannabe

  • Sapphy
    Sapphy

    Wannabe - what you say is, of course very good and laudable. However, forgiving and forgetting is very hard if the person - or organsiation - is not sorry they have sinned against you.

    Surely repentence is a pre-requiste for forgivness?

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    It is possible to cancel the debt without totally forgetting it. You do not carry it forward--you do remember it happened, but regard it as a stupid mistake on the part of the other person. Or, perhaps we view it as we took it wrong. Or both. But, there is no reasonable way to totally forget these events.

    When I won't even cancel out the debt is when something was done in mean spirit. When you have someone that is a current threat to your property or person, or would happily possess you if given half the chance, it is not appropriate to forgive such people. And it is not appropriate to forget, since the person is often a continuing threat to you and you need to be careful (and this holds true when you have a pedophile molest a child and then silence that child under threat of getting disfellowshipped).

  • nugget
    nugget

    Forgiving and forgetting may well be an ideal that we strive for in order to promote harmony but it isn't always desirable.

    In a scenario where someone has commited a sin against you of sexual abuse then it is desirable to forgive but not forget. The person may express sorrow for their course of action but may not be trustworthy since they may not be able to control their desires. They need to be treated with caution and scrutiny. The societies own instructions regarding proven paedophiles is evidence of this.

    To forget may cause future mental harm to the victim since they have to live with the consequences of the actions and have to work through it. Supressing the memory would be harmful. When you are abused it is with you always, you remember events constantly trying to make the memory different but it never is. It is not failure of compassion that brings thoughts back it is deep mental scarring. I think God understands that.

  • check
    check

    Wannabe - If I may upon reading the evidence you presented, your own evidence disproves the point you are trying to make. In the parable/passage you stated above regarding the king canceling a debt, he did not forget the debt. That can be seen in his later statement to the servant in v. 32. Had he forgotten the debt, not only would he not have been able to recall it, but also he would not have been able to use that as an additional reason for putting him in jail (v. 34).

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    A person may forgive..

    But..

    Only an Idiot forgets..

    .................. ...OUTLAW

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Hang on a minute. Nowhere does this say Jesus said you should forgive and forget

    Read it again

    23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

    26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

    28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.

    29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'

    30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.

    32"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34 In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

    35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart." {Matthew 18:23-35NIV}

    He clearly didn't forget it. He went and even reminded the servant that he had forgiven him but he obviously didn't forget it.

    ------------

    Then you pull this one out of your hat

    3 "So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. 4 If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him." 5 The apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith!" {Luke 17:3-5 NIV}

    I know! That's a bit of a stinger, isn't it? There should be no end to the foregiveness we extend, as long as repentance for the bad act is shown. Of course true repentence requires works that befits repentence.

    The scriipture says nothing about the person actually changing their behavior. It simply says if they ask you have to forgive him. You say the word "repent" requires a change in behavior. Not according to the dictionary

    re·pent 1 http://www.thefreedictionary.com/repent

    v.re·pent·ed, re·pent·ing, re·pents v.intr. 1. To feel remorse, contrition, or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do; be contrite. 2. To feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it: repented of intemperate behavior. 3. To make a change for the better as a result of remorse or contrition for one's sins. v.tr. 1. To feel regret or self-reproach for: repent one's sins. 2. To cause to feel remorse or regret. Main Entry: http://east.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/repent Pronunciation: \ri- ' pent\ Function: verb Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French repentir, from Medieval Latin repoenitere, from Latin re- + Late Latin poenitere to feel regret, alteration of Latin paenitere — more at penitent Date: 14th century

    intransitive verb1: to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
    2 a: to feel regret or contrition b: to change one's mindtransitive verb1: to cause to feel regret or contrition
    2: to feel sorrow, regret, or contrition for

    Don't fall for WT-definitions. They aren't real.

    But here again there is no mention of forgetting the wrong.

    -----------

    Next up

    20 "First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds."{Acts 26:20 NIV}

    8 "Produce fruit in keeping with repentance."{Matthew 3:8 NIV}

    Much more than a simple apology is needed, from that.

    Not a word about forgetting in either of those now is there?

    -------------

    Moving right along

    13 "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go. 14 You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you. 15 You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this. 16 By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus' name and the faith that comes through him that has given this complete healing to him, as you can all see.

    17"Now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders. 18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Christ would suffer. 19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 20 and that he may send the Christ, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus." {Acts 3:13-20 NIV}

    Nothing about forgetting there or do you see something I don't?

    ---------------

    enough. If a person hurts me and apologizes and never does it again I am more than willing to forgive. But people who continue to hurt me in the same way over and over again well they just won't be in my life. I don't need the stress and aggravation. I will go the extra mile for my children and grandchildren. But I have been hurt and taken advantage enough in my life. I needed to learn to protect myself from people like that

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