the friend that I spoke of earlier has many questions about scriptural misaplications used by the WTS. She is still a witness but is searching diligently for the true truth. I have simpler reasons for not wanting anything to do with the BORG, and have to be honest in saying I have not done alot of research on the topics she is interested in. Currently all my old books are packed away in storage and since she has no internet access I told her that I might help by posting her question for help from all of you. So here goes, She is having a very difficult time with the teaching that 1914 is the time when Jesus began ruling. the scriptures she has looked up do not seem to show where their would be any gap in time between his resurrection and his rule. She points out to me that in the Knowledge book on page 92 -94 it refers to some scriptures and says that it sounds as though this occured immediately but that in the next chapter we will learn why this is not the case. She went to the next chapter and it never even mentioned this gap in time and any scriptural reasons why Jesus did not begin to rule until 1914. I know this is a very bad paraphrase but as I said she lives in a remote area we rarely see each other and mainly communicate by phone so I took rough notes (ok very rough) on her question. I hope it makes sense. Thanks
My friend's question about 1914
by hungry4life 4 Replies latest jw friends
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hungry4life
O.k. I have my friend on the cell phone and she is reading me a quote from the knowledge book pg 97 paragraph 18 refering to 1914 it says "Did Jesus begin to reign in heaven at that time? Scriptural reasons for saying that he did will be discussed in the next chapter".Her main question is where is scriptural backing to show that Jesus did not immediately ascend to God's right hand after his ressurection but instead waited until 1914.It wasn't in the book it only had signs of the last days. Hope this is clearer.
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OBVES
I think that the words we read in Matthew 24 " what will be the signs of thy coming" imply the ongoing process of Jesus coming back again.So ,it could have started in 1914 AD and goes on. It is like you,say, are going to see me and began a journey from Sydney,Australia on January,1,2002 and I can see now signs now ( your letter,relephone call,e-mails) that you are on your way .So the Watchtower took the start of the journey as Christ came invisibly and rules or the like.
Now as far as coming of Jesus is concerend it is not that Christ is literally on his way to the earth but his presence is gradually manifested through some chosen people of God and Taze Russell must have been one of them. Christ was manifested through him and mankind could see Christ't invisible presence but it was not yet the second coming of Christ .It will occur when all signs as given in Matthew 24.3-29 have been fulfilled.
I can predict some things that they are going to happen and when they happen I can say "it is my day !!!" as those predictions come to pass. So what the last generations saw was Christ's day as his words were being fulfilled and still being fulfilled.
Right now I don't have to much time but I will write more on the subject of the year 1914 and teh end-time era.By the way if you read my posts and you can easily access them by clicking under my name OBVES you can already get some idea about the year 1914 and you can print those posts and send your friend by mail.
If God allows I will write more on the importance of the year 1914 AD in our history. -
cellomould
Hi Hungry,
You have an interesting question. I don't know whether my answer will confuse your friend. I am sure it will.
The evidence for Jesus' reign beginnining in 1914 is easily shown to be sketchy:
1. Michael the archangel of the book of Revelation = Jesus Christ. He is depicted as throwing the Devil = Satan out of heaven.
2. the book of Psalms: 'sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool under your feet' is applied to Jesus.
3. Michael will 'stand up' (as opposed to sitting , I suppose) in the book of Daniel I think.
4. 1914 is taken also from Daniel, from Nebuchadnezzar's dream about the tree. '7 times' is cleverly used to extrapolate a date in modern times. You should attack this position. he he he. The method used to calculate the date is most suspect.
5. 'Gentile times:' http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=10674&site=3
this is a recent thread which will helpAll of these points come from various places in the bible for no apparent purpose but to figure out a date for Christ's presence.
Question the motives of people who interpret the bible in this way. (to me, it is a great account of societal development, no more)
Don't worry, if your friend wants answers and can't find them in WT literature, the ball will start to roll.
cellomould
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
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Frenchy
The basis for the 1914 date, as has already been mentioned, is tied in with Daniels prophecy. Note the following from the 'knowledge' book:
16 The only city in all the earth upon which Jehovah placed his name was Jerusalem. (1 Kings 11:36) It was also the capital of a God-approved earthly kingdom typical of God's heavenly Kingdom. Therefore, the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians in 607 B.C.E. was very significant. This event marked the beginning of a lengthy interruption of God's direct rule over his people on earth. Some six centuries later, Jesus indicated that this period of interrupted rule was still in effect, for he said: "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled."-Luke 21:24.
17 During "the appointed times of the nations," worldly governments would be allowed to interrupt rulership approved by God. That period began with the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E., and Daniel indicated that it would go on for "seven times." (Daniel 4:23-25) How long is that? The Bible shows that three and a half "times" equal 1,260 days. (Revelation 12:6, 14) Twice that period, or seven times, would be 2,520 days. But nothing noteworthy happened at the end of that short period of time. By applying "a day for a year" to Daniel's prophecy and counting 2,520 years from 607 B.C.E., however, we arrive at the year 1914 C.E.-Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6. kl p. 97
Another point used is that the things mentioned in the 24th chapter of Matthew are said to have escalated to 'unprecedented levels' starting with 1914 when world war I started. This is said to be linked to the battle Michael and his angels fight witht he dragon and the dragon's subsequent ousting of heaven and his being cast down to the earth. --He was mad as hell and caused the first world war, so to speak.
"Consider, for example, the answer Jesus gave to some questions raised by his disciples. Three days before Jesus died, they asked him: "What will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?" (Matthew 24:3) In reply, Jesus told of specific world events and situations that would clearly show that this ungodly system had entered its last days" kl p. 98
Next paragraph:
"3 As shown in the preceding chapter, Bible chronology leads to the conclusion that God's Kingdom has already begun to rule. But how can that be? Things have become worse, not better. Actually, this is a strong indication that God's Kingdom has begun ruling. Why so? Well, Psalm 110:2 informs us that for a time Jesus would rule 'in the midst of his enemies.' Indeed, his first act as heavenly King was to cast Satan and his demon angels down to the vicinity of the earth. (Revelation 12:9) What was the effect? It was just what Revelation 12:12 foretold: "Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time." We are now living in that "short period of time."
Here is a sampling of the 'proof' it started in 1914 as quoted from the kl book:
FEATURES OF THE LAST DAYS
5 "Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom." (Matthew 24:7; Revelation 6:4) Writer Ernest Hemingway called World War I "the most colossal, murderous, mismanaged butchery that has ever taken place on earth." According to the book The World in the Crucible-1914-1919, this was "a new scope of war, the first total war in the experience of mankind. Its duration, intensity, and scale exceeded anything previously known or generally expected." Then came World War II, which proved much more destructive than World War I. "The twentieth century," says professor of history Hugh Thomas, "has been dominated by the machine gun, the tank, the B-52, the nuclear bomb and, finally, the missile. It has been marked by wars more bloody and destructive than those of any other age." True, much was said about disarmament after the Cold War ended. Still, one report estimates that after proposed reductions some 10,000 to 20,000 nuclear warheads will remain-more than 900 times the firepower used during World War II.