More on the Appointed Times of the Nations!
The Book: "You can live forever in Paradise on earth," published by the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society on Page 141 paragraph 20 we are told, in part: ..."the appointed times of the Nations began in the year 607 BCE." On page 139 of this same publication in paragraph 16 this further statement is made, concerning the event with which, they say started this count of time: "This happened in the year 607 BCE. At that time Zedekiah the last King to sit on Jehovah's Throne, was told: "Lift off the Crown ... it will certainly become no ones until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him." {Exekiel 21: 25-27}
Over on page 140 paragraph 17 this further statement is made, explaining, as they see it, what this event signified; in these words: "So God's rulership, as represented by the "Tree" was cut down in 607 BCE. No longer was there a government to represent God's rulership in the earth. Thus in 607 BCE a period of time began that Jesus Christ later referred to as "the appointed times of the Nations," or the times of the Gentiles." {Luke 21:24} During these "appointed times" God did not have a Government to represent his rulership in the earth." Then in paragraph 19 of this same page, we read: "According to Daniel chapter four, these "appointed times" would be "seven times." Daniel shows that there would be "seven times" during which God's rulership as represented by the "tree," would not be in operation over the earth. Daniel 4:16 How long are these seven times?"
Without actually dealing with the time prophecy in Daniel, myself in order to cut right to the chase, they tell us these appointed times ran for a period of 2,520 years beginning in 607 BCE and ending in the year 1914. This begets the question; are their calculations correct? Did those appointed times really only begin running in 607 BCE? Or is it possible, a much earlier date can be affixed to them? Was it to be true that you could actually prove their calculation wrong, you would, at the same time, be proving everything they teach about the year 1914 is in very serious error. They would be wrong on all counts! Let me go on to show why I believe their count of time is in serious error.
First the prophecy by Jesus on this matter:
24"And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of [the] nations until [the] times of [the] nations be fulfilled." {Luke 21:24 DT}
Did Jesus here give us any indication about just when the count of time would begin for this trampling that was to be done by the Nations, to begin? Now the words of Jesus here are dealing with the destruction that was to come upon that City, that he foretold would come. That when it did come, 'not a stone would be left upon a stone, and not be thrown down.' {Matthew 24:1,2}He also foretold that their enemies would build a wall around them and distress them from every side. {Luke 19:41-44} That foretold destruction came in the year 70 AD. Jesus had told them, that their City Jerusalem would be trampled on by those attacking Nations, until their times were fulfilled. Viewing it in that light, wouldn't the count of time have begun with the destruction of Jerusalem that was done by General Titus of the Roman Army in 70 AD?
That is neither logical or sensible to view it in that light, so that idea is out of the way. But, what did end when the Christ arrived on the scene? Was it not the Mosaic Law? That had still been in force, even though the line of earthly Kings had ended that sat on Jehovah's Throne at Jerusalem in 607 BCE? There were no more earthly Kings to sit on Jehovah's Throne at Jerusalem, until the Christ was to arrive in Kingdom Power; but even though that was true, Jehovah still had the Priesthood officiating at the Temple in Jerusalem, to represent him, until the Messiah arrived in 29ce, and the New Covenant was established on his precious Blood, and the Law and the Priesthood was changed, from the old law to the New Covenant Laws, and the priesthood affiliated with that new covenant, as Paul goes on to explain to tell us about:
11 "If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law. 13He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17For it is declared: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek." {Hebrews 7:11-17NIV}
This changes entirely the trampling that was done on Jerusalem, because now, it is not done on earthly Jerusalem at all. That old City is out of the picture now, being condemned and destroyed as it was. Everything has changed over from the old Law with its Priesthood, to a New Covenant, with another altogether different Priesthood than the Aaronic priesthood. Paul explains:
18"The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
20 And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:
"The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
'You are a priest forever.' 22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant." {Hebrews 7:18-22 NIV}
Think about this for a moment! The Governing Body will tell us the trampling began in 607BCE. Was the New Covenant established in 607 BCE? Let me show you why that thought is so silly. Or allow Paul to show you:
18"You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19 to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20 because they could not bear what was commanded: "If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned." 21The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, "I am trembling with fear."
22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. 25 See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven?"{Hebrews 12:18-25 NIV}
Now, what is being trampled on is Heavenly Jerusalem, the City of the living God. Much more serious now, wouldn't you say? John will go on to explain further about this City:
12"Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name."{Revelation 3:12 NIV}
In harmony with the new heavens and the new earth that we await, the New Covenant, as we might expect, is a totally New Jerusalem. A City, of, as it says, 'the Living God.'
So, do any trampling on this City, this heavenly new Jerusalem. you're actually trampling on Jehovah God.
Before I proceed further with this, I'd like to clarify a point, and that point is this: The Governing Body has told us, that because Zedekiah was deposed as the last ruling King to sit on Jehovah's Throne in Jerusalem that Jehovah no longer had a government on earth to represent his rulership. How very wrong they are in making such a statement as that, while professing to be the only ones who understand the Bible. To them only it is 'not a sealed Book,' they will tell us. Brother! Was that ever to be really true we're all in one whole pile of trouble.
They are, either forgetting something or have never known it. Notice these words in the Psalms:
6 "I have installed my King on Zion, my holy hill."{Psalm 2:6 NIV}
This of course has not happened as yet; but how do we know it will? Jehovah has made a statement here not fulfilled as yet. How do we know for certain it will be realised?
10 "As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it." {Isaiah 55:10,11 NIV}
When the Christ walked this earth, what would have been his Fathers view of him although it had not yet occured?
Because he foretold he would install his King, it was as good as done. He would have viewed his Son as a reinging king, and we know that because of these following words of Paul:
17 "As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations. He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were." {Romans 4:17NIV}
Every word he speaks is certain of fulfillment, when he gets ready to fulfill it. So, even though his Son was not yet a ruling King, his view would be that he was ruling already. It was as good as done. He absolutely knew that. So should we! Sad to say the Governing Body doesn't!
As to the work this Foretold Heavenly King would do, when he first arrived on the earth in 29ce, would be to establish the foretold New Covenant by his sacrficial death. We know at that time he chose the Twelve Apostle's. After spending the full night in prayer to his Father, he arose and chose the Twelve. {Luke 6:12-16} {Mark 3:13-19} {Matthew 10:1-8} As a result of the preaching they did, multitudes of believers were gathered at that time. {Acts 5:14} Much persecution also was endured by them, inflicted on them by the Jews who clung to the Mosaic law, during the time of the Apostle's Stevens stoning, by those same Jews. {Acts 8:1} Paul reports the words of Stephen on that incident:
51"You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit! 52 Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him— 53 you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels but have not obeyed it." {Acts7:51-53 NIV} Those Jews under the Law couldn't stand to listen to the Apostle Sephen as the Following account shows, and I cover this point for very good reason:
54 "When they heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." 57At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58 dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep." {Acts 7:54-60 NIV} Now consider the words of Jesus to these same people:
33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation."{Matthew 23:33-36NIV}
Notice now this City of Jerusalem had, as Jesus said: Turned into a brood of snakes and vipers, the seed of the devil. There's more:
15"And Jehovah the God of their fathers sent to them by his messengers, rising up early and sending; because he had compassion on his people and on his dwelling-place. 16 But they mocked at the messengers of God, and despised his words, and scoffed at his prophets, until the fury of Jehovah rose against his people, and there was no remedy." {2 Chronicles 36:15,16NIV}
13 "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you handed over and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him. 14 But you denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked to have a murderer given to you. 15 And you killed the source of life, whom God raised from the dead; we are witnesses of this." {Acts 3:13-15 NIV}
What I have revealed thus far shows ancient Jerusalem had developed into a City of murdering persecuters; as Jesus had called them, snakes and offspring of vipors. Could any reasonable minded person apply this following scripture to the City of ancient Jerusalem?
3"Thus saith Jehovah: I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem; and Jerusalem shall be called, The city of truth; and the mountain of Jehovah of hosts, The holy mountain."{Zechariah 8:3 DT}
Would this City of Truth mentioned here, become guilty of murdereing the one who had told them he was the way of the truth? Could we have at any time identified ancient Jerusalem as the City of Truth? More specifically, the City of the Throne of Jehovah's, City of truth? Are we to believe that Jehovah would dwell in the midst of a City of Jerusalem that had murdered his dear Son? When we were clearly told, there was no remedy for her, and Jesus had told them: "Look your house is abandoned to you." {Matthew 23:37-39} Jehovah, the God they pretended to Worship had left the Building. He showed that abandoment in 70 AD when he allowed General Titus leading the Roman Army to build a wall of pointed stakes around Jerusalem. No one in! No one out! When Titus was finished not a stone was left upon a stone as Jesus had predicted. One Million were put to the sword, the rest taken captive. Earthly Jerusalem was finished with and done!
The New Covenant had changed the Law, the Priesthood, and had exchanged earthly Jerusalem for Heavenly New Jerusalem. It was now the City of the Living God! This is the Jerusalem Jesus had in mind when he said" "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Nations until the appointed times of the Nations are fulfilled." It was no longer fleshly Israel! It was now the Israel of God, Siritual israel. As it turned out the City of Jerusalem of old turned out to be the ones doing the trampling, not being trampled upon themselves by anyone. {Galatians 6:16}
Now try doing the count of time from 607BCE and you only prove how very inadequet, and unskilled you are at Bible Knowledge. The main reason being, Jesus never appeared on the earth to establish the New Covenant until 29ce. That is when the new Covenant with the change to Heavenly New Jerusalem, came into being. Find out when the last Apostle died off the earthly scene, you may have a starting point for counting properly the times of the Nations and the trampling they [the Nations] would do on Heavenly New Jerusalem. The real City of Truth!
There is one very large problem with this idea of counting these times, and that is, the Prophecy of the seven times in Daniel, I don't believe was dealing with the times of the Nations and their trampling at all, but was merely pointing to the time period Jehovah's Heavenly Woman would begin to show signs of pregnancy, and would begin to experience the birth pangs of the Kingdom, which would be evidenced by the appearance of the composite sign of the coming of Christ into Kingdom power. Things such as Wars, and Rumors of Wars, earthquakes, famine, starvation, deseases, increasing crime, growing loss of love among people in general continued escalation of trials and troubles until finally the last pangs of birth, where Nation would rise against Nation and Kingdom against Kingdom,and the final birth pangs when all hell breaks loose on this planet, as Ezekiels Prophecy is fulfilled. Ezekiel 38:21-23 as well as Jeremiah's 25:31-37- Even was we to know the exact Year, Month, Day, Second, the last Apostle died off the scene, we would still be no better off, in fact we might even be worse off, because 2,520 years from his death, would put us exactly where? {Revelation 12:1-17}
Let me just summarize this by saying: How can we apply a Time Prophecy in Daniel that began running in 607 BCE and ended in the year 1914 to the New Covenant that brought Heavenly New Jerusalem, the City of Truth, God's Holy City into focus after the Christ was crucified, and inaurguated that New Covenant in or around 29 CE? It makes no sense what-so-ever, because it simply does not apply, any way you want to look at it. How could Heavenly New Jerusalem be trampled on for all of that time period if it was not yet even in existence in 607 BCE? How could it from that date, run for a period of 2,520 years if it didn't even exist, and wouldn't for hundreds of years later? Now it had to be Heavenly New Jerusalem that was on the mind of the Christ when he gave that prophecy about the appointed times of the Nations, because NEVER and I mean NEVER could we or he, ever believe earthly Jerusalem was the City of truth. City of murdering, persecuting cut-throats yes, but never the City of Truth. Read this following scripture and tell me that you believe that Jehovah would dwell in the midst of earthly Jerusalem, and for that reason it would be called the City of Truth, the "Holy Mountain" because of his presence among them? After for Centuries they had murdered and persecuted his true Prophets?
When Jesus gave that Prophecy, I feel it safe to say, since he inaugorated the New Covenant on his own Blood, it would have had to have been Heavenly New Jerusalem that was the City undergoing this trampling that he meant, not unfaithful Jerusalem.
"Thus saith Jehovah: I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem; and Jerusalem shall be called, The city of truth; and the mountain of Jehovah of hosts, The holy mountain."{Zechariah 8:3 DT}
Being as it is, an improper understanding of that time prophecy that is not correct, applying it as they do, to the wrong City of Jerusalem, means also, all of their teachings based on their understanding of that scripture must be incorrect. The War in heaven was not fought in 1914- satan was not thrown down to this earth in that year. The Christ was not invisibly present in that year. Matthew 24:7 was not fulfilled in that year. Even though it might have looked like it, Nation did not rise against Nation, nor kingdom against kingdom in 1914 - To this day, we still have going on Wars and rumors of Wars, but the end is not yet, as Jesus had said. So Matthew 24:7 has to be yet future in that case. That being incorrect, everything they teach for the year 1914 is incorrect along with that. Because in their minds the Christ was invisibly present because they believed Matthew 24:7 was fulfilled in that year, because their belief was the time prophecy zeroed in on the large scale event foretold there. Since it wasn't, neither is he invisibly present. If it's really crucial we know when the count of time started for the trampling on New Heavenly Jerusalem, we merely must learn in what year the last Apostle died off from the scene, but would we really be any further ahead even if we knew that? Personally I don't see how!
Let me end with one last thought on this trampling. Is it possible, that this trampling Jesus spoke about had anything to do with the Words of Jehovah to satan in the garden of eden? Where Jehovah mentioned the enmity or hatred that would exist between the seed of the Heavenly Woman, and the seed of satan the devil? That hatred now, has gone on for thousands of years. All during that time period Jehovah's Faithful worshippers have been brualized persecuted and murdered by those who followed the example of those early Jews. Paul gave a sum up of that treatment in Hebrews 11:32-40- May it be, that we can date this trampling right back to the garden of eden? Just a thought, but I think it comes down to understanding the issue satan raised in the garden of eden between him self and Jehovah. Something we're not told was going on between them, in order for satan to act the way he does, and did. {Genesis 3:15}
One final point that will conclusively show that Jesus could not have been speaking about earthly Jerusalem, when he said: "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Nations until the appointed times of the Nations are fulfilled." That point is the following:
22 "For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise. 24 These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud,
you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband." 28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son." 31Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman."{Galatians 4:22-31 NIV}
We know for a positive fact that the Jerusalem that is above did not come on the scene until the Christ established the New Covenant, and we know also, that the Christ never arrived for Baptism by John until 29CE; so the free Woman could not have been trampled on by the Nations, for 2,520 years due to the fact she wasn't on the scene in 607BCE. So, everything the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society teaches about the year 1914, is wrong. The Christ was to be the King of the City of the Living God, Heavenly New Jerusalem, so why would he even give earthly Jeruasalem a second thought, when he foretold that trampling?
The Governing Body will tell us that Matthew 24:7 was fulfilled in the year 1914, that because of that the War in heaven had been fought, with the devil cast down; and they associate that idea with the Christs invisible presence in kingdom power. News flash for them! The scripture they seem to very carefully skirt in Matthew 24:6 is still right to this moment in time seeing fulfillment. The Wars and Rumors of Wars, with the end not yet, as Jesus had said, are still very much in evidence, while Matthew 24:7 has not even been fulfilled as yet. Matthew 24:7 is yet ahead in the future. That means the Christ has not been invisibly present since 1914. The War in heaven has not been fought as yet. The Woe for the earth John spoke about has not begun yet. They are wrong on all counts, because of not understanding the Jerusalem Jesus was talking about.
Isn't this following statement really laughable?
"To it (this organization) alone...the Bible is not a sealed book." The WTS is "the only organization on earth that understands the 'deep things of God.' "
(WT 1973 July 1 p. 402)
The leaders are "spirit directed" (WT 1988 March 1 p. 10) and "God's channel."
(WT 1969 January 15 p. 51; 1960 July 15 pp. 439, 442)
You think I should tell them? Naw! They'd never believe me anyway! They'd never believe my source of information comes from the following: {John 14:15-17,26;15:26,27} {1 John 2:26,27} Wannabe