Is the pratice of disfellowshipping valid today?

by wannabe 8 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • wannabe
    wannabe

    Is The Practice of Disfellowshipping Valid Today?

    I don't want anyone to think I advocate or condone wickedness in any way; but that is not what is at issue here. What took place in the first Century, as far as removing the wicked from among the Congregation in the first Century I find no fault with. My bone of contention is, should the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society, with their Elder arrangement, take it upon themselves, to follow exactly, the lead of those first Century Christian's, and disfellowship the many that they have today?

    If it was really to be a valid practice for us today, then why did Jesus give a parable that was for the time of the harvest, or conclusion of the system of things; and suggest in that parable that it was not to be done in our time period by any of the leaders of any Congregation? More! Why does Jehovah himself condemn their bullying tactics through the pen of his Prophet Ezekiel?

    To begin with, examine closely the parable of the Wheat and the Weeds in the Field to see what is revealed there:

    24 "Another parable He set forth before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while he was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed also darnel (weeds resembling wheat) among the wheat, and went on his way. 26 So when the plants sprouted and formed grain, the darnel (weeds) appeared also. 27 And the servants of the owner came to him and said, Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? Then how does it have darnel shoots in it? 28 He replied to them, An enemy has done this. The servants said to him, Then do you want us to go and weed them out? 29 But he said, "NO!" Lest in gathering the wild wheat (weeds resembling wheat), you root up the [true] wheat along with it. 30 Let them grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will say to the reapers, Gather the darnel first and bind it in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my granary." {Matthew 13:24-30 AB}

    Jesus was hear telling them, that they personally wouldn't be able to distinguish the difference between the two, and there was a danger of removing one of the Wheat class, if they themselves weeded them out. He then told them, that was a work the reapers would do at harvest time. So, the Governing Body and their elder arrangement have taken over the position meant only for these reapers. Let's look at just who these reapers are now in the following verses:

    6 "Then He left the throngs and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him saying, Explain to us the parable of the darnel in the field. 37 He answered, He Who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed means the children of the kingdom; the darnel is the children of the evil one, 39 And the enemy who sowed it is the devil. The harvest is the close and consummation of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40 Just as the darnel (weeds resembling wheat) is gathered and burned with fire, so it will be at the close of the age. 41The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of offense persons by whom others are drawn into error or sin] and all who do iniquity and act wickedly, 42 And will cast them into the furnace of fire; there will be weeping and wailing and grinding of teeth. 43 Then will the righteous (those who are upright and in right standing with God) shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him who has ears [to hear] be listening, and let him consider and perceive and understand by hearing."{Matthew 13:36-43 AB}

    Look closely at the reality of this parable! Do we not know the sower to be the Son of God? Do we not know the field is the World? Do we not know the good seed are the Children of the Kingdom? Do we not know the enemy that oversowed these weeds in among the wheat is the devil? Do we not know the Harvest is the conclusion of the system of things? We know all of that! It is clear! Knowing all of that as we do, then along with all of that, we should know the Son of Man will send forth his Angels as he said he would do, and THEY will gather out of the kingdom all causes of offense, and persons who are drawn into error or sin? Now! You tell me, where that puts the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society, and their arrangment of bullying Gestapo--like Elders? Ezakiel will tell us that`about these`bullying Hitlerites:

    Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them, even to the [spiritual] shepherds, Thus says the Lord God: Woe to the [spiritual] shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the sheep? You eat the fat, you clothe yourselves with the wool, you kill the fatlings, but you do not feed the sheep.The diseased and weak you have not strengthened, the sick you have not healed, the hurt and crippled you have not bandaged, those gone astray you have not brought back, the lost you have not sought to find, but with force and hardhearted harshness you have ruled them. 5And they were scattered because there was no shepherd, and when they were scattered they became food for all the wild beasts of the field. My sheep wandered through all the mountains and upon every high hill; yes, My sheep were scattered upon all the face of the earth and no one searched or sought for themTherefore, you [spiritual] shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: As I live, says the Lord God, surely because My sheep became a prey, and My sheep became food for every beast of the field because there was no shepherd--neither did My shepherds search for My sheep, but the shepherds fed themselves and fed not My sheep-- Therefore, O you [spiritual] shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My sheep at their hand and cause them to cease feeding the sheep, neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more. I will rescue My sheep from their mouths, that they may not be food for them. For thus says the Lord God: Behold,of Israel, by the watercourses, and in all the inhabited I, I Myself, will search for My sheep and will seek them out As a shepherd seeks out his sheep in the day that he is among his flock that are scattered, so will I seek out My sheep; and I will rescue them out of all places where they have been scattered in the day of clouds and thick darkness. And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and will bring them to their own land; and I will feed them upon the mountains places of the country. 14 I will feed them with good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be; there shall they lie down in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel. I will feed My sheep and I will cause them to lie down, says the Lord God. I will seek that which was lost and bring back that which has strayed, and I will bandage the hurt and the crippled and will strengthen the weak and the sick, but I will destroy the fat and the strong [who have become hardhearted and perverse]; I will feed them with judgment and punishment.17And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord God: Behold, I judge between sheep and sheep, between the rams and the great he-goats [the malicious and the tyrants of the pasture]. Is it too little for you that you feed on the best pasture, but you must tread down with your feet the rest of your pasture? And to have drunk of the waters clarified by subsiding, but you must foul the rest of the water with your feet? And My flock, must they feed on what your feet have trodden and drink what your feet have fouled? Therefore thus says the Lord God to them: Behold, I, I Myself, will judge between fat sheep and impoverished sheep, or fat goats and lean goats.Because you push with side and with shoulder and thrust with your horns all those that have become weak and diseased, till you have scattered them abroad, Therefore will I rescue My flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep.Ezekiel 34:2-22 AB

    Now many Marriages have been torn apart by these oppressive wolves? How many Families have been turned against each other by this practice of disfellowshipping? That was not even to be done today. That was to be done solely by the Angels under the direction of the Christ? How many right now, are out there hurting and deeply grieving, because of Broken Marriages, and families that have been torn apart, by this bullying Organization, that has the audacity to call themselves, "God's Organization?" What a blight on God's name they really are!

    They have the Flock so afraid of them, when one does have a problem with a fleshly weakness and needs kindly counsel and direction, they are too afraid to approach the Elders for fear of being marked shunned, or even worse disfellowshipped. If anyone even dares to follow the direction given in James, rather than get help, they get abused. The Elders really don't understand the Book they claim to Champion. How bloody sad that is! "Call the Elders of the Church?" What a joke!

    13 "Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. 14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective." {James 5:13-16 NIV}

    Callng in the Elders of this Church in question, would be tantamount to calling in the Nazi Storm Troopers on yourself.

    Am I against keeping the Congregation clean by cleaning the wicked ones out of it? No! I'm all for that idea! What I'm not for is any so-called, "God's Organization" doing it, when it is the business of the Christ sending out the Angels to do it during the time of the harvest. They not only sit in the Temple of God, they also take over the seat of the Christ. The time of the Harvest is not even here yet, so like they tell us they received their Appointment in 1919 as the Faithful Slave even well before the Christ is appointed as King of God's Kingdom, they even do the clean-up of the Congregations for him and the Angels, long before it was supposed to even be done. Look at the damage they have done to individuals as a reslut of that disfellowshipping practice. For my money they all should be arrested and jailed along with their entire Elder arrangement; for abuse of the flocks around this World. Don't worry though, Jehovah will see to it that, that little matter is taken care of when the due time for it arrives.

    Was I to be any of the Governing Body, or any among the Elder arrangement, right now I'd be quaking in my Boots, in great fear and dread of what was coming upon them. No kidding, I would be, because they have been doing something that is not valid for them to do today. I would think ursurping the power and the position of the Christ and the Angels is a very serious matter, and not to be taken all that lightly by the Christ. I do believe they will learn how serious a matter it really is, and who knows, maybe sooner than expected. Wannabe

  • tec
    tec

    Powerful post, Wannabe! It seems very clear laid out like this. I don't know how spiritual leaders miss this message, except that they are self-professed leaders.

    Tammy

  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    They have to use disfellowshipping because they don't have eternal torment of hell to coerce people.

    Instead of hell in the afterlife, they threaten you with hell on earth. What's the difference?

    Christ preached forgiveness, and the only dangerous people that were to be shunned were people who pretended to be Christians to infiltrate congregations and destroy them from the OUTSIDE, from what I read.

    Fellow Christians were to be treated like Christ treated his disciples, and never once did he dismiss anyone but Judas, who had gone to his destroyers to betray him, whose faith may have been sincere at one point, but who made himself an outsider to the congregation. But, the elders nor the FDS are not Christ, who could read the hearts of individuals.

    Leave the judging to Christ, that message is all throughout the Christian scriptures, but they seem to think God isn't capable of it.

  • lepermessiah
    lepermessiah

    Good stuff Wannabe!

    Its not - I dont see how its scriptural as applied in JW land.

    Another point to ponder is that in the scriptures that the WTBS uses for disfellowshipping and marking, the orginal greek texts use the same verb for "mixing in company" in both of those scriptures....

    So why is one used to DF someone, and the other used to mark someone as bad association when Paul used the same word in both scriptures?

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    Good stuff, but ASIDE from all of that, the JW's do NOT do disfellowshipping like in the first century.

    Try to find a single scripture indicating if somebody sinned and confesses, they judge if they are repentent enough or not, and then also give punishment.

    You'll find 2 things. 1. The brother who confesses because of weakness, the older mean PRAY and comfort and ask for his spiritual healing.

    2. The ONLY time one is removed, is one who "calls himself a brother", who is blatantly practicing sin. (One who has reputation and is known to be a fornicator, drunkard, etc.)

    There is a big difference between that, and sinning but trying to be good, confessing sin, etc.

  • nugget
    nugget

    Very thought provoking and well thought out argument. The Dfing doctrine is an abuse of power within the congregation and as such has lost it's meaning. It is argued it keeps the congregation clean but how can that be true when there is so much bad conduct being swept under the carpet? It is a cruel mechanism that manifests the superiority of an organisation over family ties.

  • dgp
    dgp

    I'm not a JW but here's my two cents. Let me wear my religious hat, that I just took off the corner where I tossed it so many years ago.

    I used to believe that whether you did what your God wanted, or not, was your God's and your own business. I always failed to see how someone else could claim a right to cut you off from your God. I always thought that it was your God who would have the right to determine whether you had failed or not. So, I never ever agreed with the idea of disfellowshipping, or excommunication, or whatever. No one has that right.

    In a more practical sense, I believe disfellowshipment serves the purpose of execution of the dissidents in Soviet Russia. If I don't like you, you're gone. That's it.

  • FatFreek 2005
    FatFreek 2005

    I think the Catholics view on formal confession may bear some resemblance to the JW practice of disfellowshipping. I suspect that most JWs don't believe in it but cannot be vocal about it for fear of repercussion.

    This, from a recent Minnesota public radio broadcast:
    Seeking forgiveness for one's sins is one the seven sacraments of the Catholic Church. But participation in the holy ritual has declined drastically over the last four decades. Today 75 percent of American Catholics say they don't see the importance of formal confession.

    Then, speaking of a certain mainstream Catholic, "Statisticians often label people like her "cafeteria Catholics," meaning they prefer their religious rituals a la carte. Sunday hymns -- yes. Confession -- no, thanks."
    http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/02/27/confession/

    Just my 2 pennies.

    Len

  • dgp
    dgp

    Fatfreek, I remember that many priests wouldn't even hear your sins. Many a priest will tell you "Knowledge of your sins is a matter between you and your God. All I care about is that you've come here seeking forgiveness".

    I think care is warranted in trying to understand what you say about disfellowshipment and confession resembling each other. Disfellowshipping means you're pushed out of the church. Confession means you go to a priest and ask for forgiveness for all of your sins, which is usually granted. Never showing up to confess your sins does not result in your being pushed out of the church. Excommunication is more similar to disfelloshipment, with the "small" diference that it doesn't force your relatives to shun you. I'm sorry, but I think you're comparing apples and oranges.

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