JESUS: a latter day ALEXANDER THE GREAT

by Terry 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

Terry

Think of Japan BEFORE and AFTER their defeat in WWII.
BEFORE WWII Japan was a feudal society with God (Hirohito) as its political and theocratic
leader in the person of the Emperor.
When the atomic bombs fell on Hiroshima and Nagasaki all this was virtually wiped out in a very short span of time!!
Imagine how this must impact the psychology of people who believe their view of the world and god is entirely and absolutely true.
It creates an awful split in thinking!
THIS INVARIABLY LEADS TO ADAPTIVE THINKING--RETHINKING--RETROFITTING...
BY TAKING ON THE VIEWS OF THE VICTOR and BLENDING THEM with what already exists.
Japanese society could never go backward to what it was before.
They have become a mirror of Western cultured by blending all things Japanese with the ethos of Western thought.
Note: it is not identical with Western thought, but, swallows it whole and mutates existing Japanese thought.
I posit that this is what happened to the cultures in the East when Alexander the Great defeated local armies and wiped out the illusion
that God(s) was/were protecting them.
Why?
BEING DEFEATED causes a rethink.
JUDIASM was no exception.
When the Greeks defeated the Jews a world-shaking change was wrought upon their mind, their thinking and their culture!
1.Greek language swallowed up Hebrew because it was vastly superior in details of expression and encompassed the science and philosophy of technology superior to primitive tribal society.
2.Greek explanations had greater scope and allowed more choices of causes and effects, thus, allowing the population at large to think and choose on a greater scale of personal freedom.
3.Greek ways demonstrated success was to be wrought by actual flesh and blood heroes led by a son of God (Alexander was the "son of Zeus" and descendant of Achilles).
A split took place in Jewish conception of how Israel was to achieve its "proper" status among all the peoples of the earth.
1.The Jews would need somebody like Alexander the Great to restore their status as a "chosen people". Thus, the idea of a MESSIAH as cultural and religious hero was triggered.
2.The change in world religion would come only AFTER a military victory.
How this was to be achieved mimicked Greek success in every way.
The political/religious/scientific/logical community in Israel began to absorb its young men with visions of grandeur and achievement.
This is similar to what has happened in Muslim countries today.
Young men are filled with heroic ideas of HOW TO ACHIEVE paradise by becoming politically radical.
They become pawns for achieving the political ends of the leadership through the trappings of GOD and RELIGIOUS MARTYRDOM.
THE MESSIANIC MOVEMENT was born, but, quickly split into two competing ideas.
1.Pacifists who thought of the Messiah as a tool of God and who would succeed by divine miracles on the battlefield.
2.Practical men who thought the Messiah was an earthly King/Priest/Warrior like Alexander.
Judaism divided over the role of the Messiah to come
The Messiah hope split the religion of Judaism forever after.
In much the same way as we see young Arab boys and other Muslim ethnicities lured into the excitement of political and religious activism leading to martyrdom--so too, in Israel the young men were lured into Messiah fever.
Many a man fell into the trap of believing he might be the "chosen one" only to suffer death (martyrdom) and creating sect after sect of disillusioned followers.
One such sect after another split Judaism into competing philsophies, rituals and views of what pure worship was all about.
Who were these competing groups?
Among these sectarian splinters we find Gnosticism, Rabbinical Judiasm, Temple ritual sects and mystical leaders
Pharisees, Saducees and other radicals regularly argued with each other as to who was right and who was wrong.
They publicly competed in the marketplace of ideas, debate and discussion. Polemic was everywhere.
NOTE:
SOCRATES had forever changed the art of discourse by replying to questions with a question of his own.
The Greek model of public teaching and discourse was soon mirrored in Judaism. Questions and answers were often Rhetorical.
Now enters Jesus the mystic, the apocalyptic, the Socratic teacher. The very model of Greek hero. Would he also be Messiah?
Every thing we admire about Jesus is influenced by Greek thinking; especially his Socratic method of teaching.
He is the embodiment of latter day Socratic instruction with his disciples mirroring the Platonic Academy in Athens.
Two points:
1.Jesus' use of the words: BODY, SOUL, and SPIRIT are Greek thoughts grafted on to Jewish theology.
2.Paul (the Hellenized Jew) used Greek Logic to explain how Jesus could fit the Greco-Hebrew conception of Messianic hope.
When Jesus was executed his role and identity were SPIRITUALIZED by Paul.
This saved his status and placed it into a special category the other failed-Messiahs had not been able to overcome.
Constantine, the military hero, became a CHRISTIAN hero paving the way for Jesus Messiah belief to proceed without hindrance.
The question of the hour became: WHO IS JESUS?
Military Hero? Political leader? Religious teacher?
Jesus could assume the identity of all three......SPIRITUALLY.
Rome wiped out Jerusalem. Judaism all but disappeared overnight.
This left the door open for gentile christians to take over the definition of JESUS as the Greek hero and latter day Alexander.
Jesus was absorbed into the CHURCH which was absorbed into the political will of the EMPEROR.
WHO WOULD JESUS BE?
DIVINE like Alexander the Great (himself a son of God).
Political like David the military consolidator
Religious king-priest like Melchizadek
The TRINITY doctrine reflects this incorporation of everybody's "need" into ONE identity.
Terry

Can anybody think of examples which have gone on in recent history of a person's "identity" and "role" being changed over time
to fit the needs of a political or religious group?
I'd pick Ronald Reagan and Rosa Parks.
BurnTheShips

You are basically saying that religion evolves. I agree.
Some say that that cults of personality--great men--shape history. Others say it is geography and resources. Yet others say it is man's interplay with his own subconscious. Marx said it was economic forces. Spengler held that civilizations rise and fall cyclically, like biological organisms.
The real driver, however, is Man's relationship to God--the greatest idea. The way he views that relationship, and the way he views God itself, is what shapes his view of the world. It is what shapes history. That changing, evolving idea is what has driven history through it's own changes.
BTS
Terry

The real driver, however, is Man's relationship to God--the greatest idea. The way he views that relationship, and the way he views God itself, is what shapes his view of the world. It is what shapes history. That changing, evolving idea is what has driven history through it's own changes.
Man relates to go through ritual and philosophy. Ritual manifests devotion through action. Philosophy informs the believer as to "what" and "why".
This involves a medium of communication.
A holy book. A teacher. A school of initiation. A body of exercises or meditations.
But, almost invariably there must be a CHARISMATIC LEADER.
Joseph Smith, C.T.Russell, Mary Baker Eddy, Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, etc.
What CHANGES is the WAY present day needs in a particular society ALTER the story of WHO that person "really was."
The constant reinterpreting according to need is a function we cannot ignore. No belief is stagnant in place and time or it vanishes.
PSacramento

Some say that that cults of personality--great men--shape history. Others say it is geography and resources. Yet others say it is man's interplay with his own subconscious. Marx said it was economic forces. Spengler held that civilizations rise and fall cyclically, like biological organisms.
The real driver, however, is Man's relationship to God--the greatest idea
All of the above to a certain extent but, like Terry said, a charismatic leader is the clincher.
We tend to remember great men, in all forms of greatness ( good and bad).
Ghandi was a hindu, but people don't really focus on that, MLK was a Christian, but they don't focus on that either.
Psychotic Parrot

John Lennon was just plain confused, but we don't focus on that
Terry

I find it most interesting that the Western world has made Christianity white and practically misogynist with only a begrudging nod
to his Semitic origins.
Historically, Christianity is more neo-Platonic Greek in thought and philosophy because the rug was pulled out from under its probable Jewish
continuation. The Perfect Storm of Roman demolition and the influx of Gentiles in a Greco-Roman ethos skewed everything.
The more you read the more you become aware how deeply and profoundly DUMBSTRUCK the world was at the extraordinary accomplishments of
Alexander. He became the very model of the modern major general (to borrow Gilbert and Sullivan's turn of phrase) who combined divinity,
political savvy and insuperable military genius.
The victory of Constantine and the seemingly overnight reversal of fortune of trampled, persecuted, marginalized Christians MADE ANYTHING SEEM PLAUSIBLE!
Minds went wild with imagination!
The Messianic Christians now had a category of possibility for a credible candidate which included world domination.
We can't possibly imagine the excitement this Jesus character must have generated. Rumors must have exaggerated every little thing he said and
did into a Technicolor, wide-screen, high-definition super-heroic miracle working kick-ass Hebrew Alexander.
Word of mouth and over-active imagination did the rest.
LanDi

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, The gospels names of Matthew, Mark, Luke and JOhn do not necessarily indicate authorship. We are very confident they were written around 4 AD.
Now, a large part of this argument is the striking simularities between Jesus and Buddha, Osiris and others , ie : Osiris was the light of the world, he walked on water, came to save us from our sins, had 12 disciples and a last supper, though it wasn't bread it was something else ( I don't have my notes to hand.) The reason these points are relevant is because it is almost as if Jesus could have been pieced together from a load of "pagan" gods - the stories are too similar, even his sayings are paraphrases of Buddas words. SO COULD HE HAVE BEEN INVENTED BY THE CHURCH ?
Well, the time he lived was one of great upheavel politically , in fact the Jews were a huge threat to the Romans, and Pontius Pilate was quite a dictator, so allowing his crucifiction was a little out of character, as he was the sort to crush any sort of riot, upheavel, and not the kind of man to shrink down to demands.
Jesus words to go " buy swords " which still remain in scripture, his death on the cross / stake ( very quick - unusual) the handling of a dead body on the passover with the items taken to him after in the cave were for treating injuries, not embalming. It is very likely to me that he may not have been the son of God but something quite different, as his crucifiction ( for sedition ) would indicate.
OF COURSE, this could be Satans greatest trick to mislead us all from selling the Watchtower, in which case Why isn't it much better known ?
tec

I think you are confusing Osiris with Horus, LanDi. But even then, most 'copycat' or 'comparison' claims are inaccurate. I'm curious as to what sources you have used to draw your conclusions?
Tammy

JESUS: a latter day ALEXANDER THE GREAT

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