Is the pratice of disfellowshipping valid today?

by wannabe 4 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • wannabe
    wannabe

    Is The Practice of Disfellowshipping Valid Today?

    I don't want anyone to think I advocate or condone wickedness in any way; but that is not what is at issue here. What took place in the first Century, as far as removing the wicked from among the Congregation in the first Century I find no fault with. My bone of contention is, should the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society, with their Elder arrangement, take it upon themselves, to follow exactly, the lead of those first Century Christian's, and disfellowship the many that they have today?

    If it was really to be a valid practice for us today, then why did Jesus give a parable that was for the time of the harvest, or conclusion of the system of things; and suggest in that parable that it was not to be done in our time period by any of the leaders of any Congregation? More! Why does Jehovah himself condemn their bullying tactics through the pen of his Prophet Ezekiel?

    To begin with, examine closely the parable of the Wheat and the Weeds in the Field to see what is revealed there:

    24 "Another parable He set forth before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while he was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed also darnel (weeds resembling wheat) among the wheat, and went on his way. 26 So when the plants sprouted and formed grain, the darnel (weeds) appeared also. 27 And the servants of the owner came to him and said, Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? Then how does it have darnel shoots in it? 28 He replied to them, An enemy has done this. The servants said to him, Then do you want us to go and weed them out? 29 But he said, "NO!" Lest in gathering the wild wheat (weeds resembling wheat), you root up the [true] wheat along with it. 30 Let them grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will say to the reapers, Gather the darnel first and bind it in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my granary." {Matthew 13:24-30 AB}

    Jesus was hear telling them, that they personally wouldn't be able to distinguish the difference between the two, and there was a danger of removing one of the Wheat class, if they themselves weeded them out. He then told them, that was a work the reapers would do at harvest time. So, the Governing Body and their elder arrangement have taken over the position meant only for these reapers. Let's look at just who these reapers are now in the following verses:

    6 "Then He left the throngs and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him saying, Explain to us the parable of the darnel in the field. 37 He answered, He Who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed means the children of the kingdom; the darnel is the children of the evil one, 39 And the enemy who sowed it is the devil. The harvest is the close and consummation of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40 Just as the darnel (weeds resembling wheat) is gathered and burned with fire, so it will be at the close of the age. 41The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of offense persons by whom others are drawn into error or sin] and all who do iniquity and act wickedly, 42 And will cast them into the furnace of fire; there will be weeping and wailing and grinding of teeth. 43 Then will the righteous (those who are upright and in right standing with God) shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him who has ears [to hear] be listening, and let him consider and perceive and understand by hearing."{Matthew 13:36-43 AB}

    Look closely at the reality of this parable! Do we not know the sower to be the Son of God? Do we not know the field is the World? Do we not know the good seed are the Children of the Kingdom? Do we not know the enemy that oversowed these weeds in among the wheat is the devil? Do we not know the Harvest is the conclusion of the system of things? We know all of that! It is clear! Knowing all of that as we do, then along with all of that, we should know the Son of Man will send forth his Angels as he said he would do, and THEY will gather out of the kingdom all causes of offense, and persons who are drawn into error or sin? Now! You tell me, where that puts the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society, and their arrangment of bullying Gestapo--like Elders? Ezakiel will tell us that`about these`bullying Hitlerites:

    Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them, even to the [spiritual] shepherds, Thus says the Lord God: Woe to the [spiritual] shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the sheep? You eat the fat, you clothe yourselves with the wool, you kill the fatlings, but you do not feed the sheep.The diseased and weak you have not strengthened, the sick you have not healed, the hurt and crippled you have not bandaged, those gone astray you have not brought back, the lost you have not sought to find, but with force and hardhearted harshness you have ruled them. 5And they were scattered because there was no shepherd, and when they were scattered they became food for all the wild beasts of the field. My sheep wandered through all the mountains and upon every high hill; yes, My sheep were scattered upon all the face of the earth and no one searched or sought for themTherefore, you [spiritual] shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: As I live, says the Lord God, surely because My sheep became a prey, and My sheep became food for every beast of the field because there was no shepherd--neither did My shepherds search for My sheep, but the shepherds fed themselves and fed not My sheep-- Therefore, O you [spiritual] shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My sheep at their hand and cause them to cease feeding the sheep, neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more. I will rescue My sheep from their mouths, that they may not be food for them. For thus says the Lord God: Behold,of Israel, by the watercourses, and in all the inhabited I, I Myself, will search for My sheep and will seek them out As a shepherd seeks out his sheep in the day that he is among his flock that are scattered, so will I seek out My sheep; and I will rescue them out of all places where they have been scattered in the day of clouds and thick darkness. And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and will bring them to their own land; and I will feed them upon the mountains places of the country. 14 I will feed them with good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be; there shall they lie down in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel. I will feed My sheep and I will cause them to lie down, says the Lord God. I will seek that which was lost and bring back that which has strayed, and I will bandage the hurt and the crippled and will strengthen the weak and the sick, but I will destroy the fat and the strong [who have become hardhearted and perverse]; I will feed them with judgment and punishment.17And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord God: Behold, I judge between sheep and sheep, between the rams and the great he-goats [the malicious and the tyrants of the pasture]. Is it too little for you that you feed on the best pasture, but you must tread down with your feet the rest of your pasture? And to have drunk of the waters clarified by subsiding, but you must foul the rest of the water with your feet? And My flock, must they feed on what your feet have trodden and drink what your feet have fouled? Therefore thus says the Lord God to them: Behold, I, I Myself, will judge between fat sheep and impoverished sheep, or fat goats and lean goats.Because you push with side and with shoulder and thrust with your horns all those that have become weak and diseased, till you have scattered them abroad, Therefore will I rescue My flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep.Ezekiel 34:2-22 AB

    How many Marriages have been torn apart by these oppressive wolves? How many Families have been turned against each other by this practice of disfellowshipping? That was not even to be done today. That was to be done solely by the Angels under the direction of the Christ? How many right now, are out there hurting and deeply grieving, because of Broken Marriages, and families that have been torn apart, by this bullying Organization, that has the audacity to call themselves, "God's Organization?" What a blight on God's name they really are!

    They have the Flock so afraid of them, when one does have a problem with a fleshly weakness and needs kindly counsel and direction, they are too afraid to approach the Elders for fear of being marked shunned, or even worse disfellowshipped. If anyone even dares to follow the direction given in James, rather than get help, they get abused. The Elders really don't understand the Book they claim to Champion. How bloody sad that is! "Call the Elders of the Church?" What a joke!

    13 "Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. 14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective." {James 5:13-16 NIV}

    Callng in the Elders of this Church in question, would be tantamount to calling in the Nazi Storm Troopers on yourself.

    Am I against keeping the Congregation clean by cleaning the wicked ones out of it? No! I'm all for that idea! What I'm not for is any so-called, "God's Organization" doing it, when it is the business of the Christ sending out the Angels to do it during the time of the harvest. They not only sit in the Temple of God, they also take over the seat of the Christ. The time of the Harvest is not even here yet, so like they tell us they received their Appointment in 1919 as the Faithful Slave even well before the Christ is appointed as King of God's Kingdom, they even do the clean-up of the Congregations for him and the Angels, long before it was supposed to even be done. Look at the damage they have done to individuals as a reslut of that disfellowshipping practice. For my money they all should be arrested and jailed along with their entire Elder arrangement; for abuse of the flocks around this World. Don't worry though, Jehovah will see to it that, that little matter is taken care of when the due time for it arrives.

    Was I to be any of the Governing Body, or any among the Elder arrangement, right now I'd be quaking in my Boots, in great fear and dread of what was coming upon them. No kidding, I would be, because they have been doing something that is not valid for them to do today. I would think ursurping the power and the position of the Christ and the Angels is a very serious matter, and not to be taken all that lightly by the Christ. I do believe they will learn how serious a matter it really is, and who knows, maybe sooner than expected. Wannabe

  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    It never was a Christian practice. Just another load of BS that was divined from the Gibbering Body's morning bowel movements lining up to make a pentagram or something.

    It often comforts me to think that if Christ could meet a JW, he'd no doubt think they're as freaking weird as most other people think they are.

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    What took place in the first Century, as far as removing the wicked from among the Congregation in the first Century I find no fault with.

    You should, though, dear Wannabe, as there was absolutely no basis for it. Christ NEVER taught such a thing. It was Paul who TRIED to institute the practice... and failed, praise JAH! Because doing so almost demolished the Corinthian congregation. Indeed, the congregation was GREATLY divided as a result of what Paul was pushing them to do in this vein. Even the apostles opposed him, so that he eventually came back and told the congregation that THEIR reproof of the man in question was sufficient. Which it how it SHOULD have been, because THAT is what Christ taught. Matthew 18:15-17

    Paul, however, overstepped this teaching because what he learned BEFORE he was called. "Expelling from the synagogue" is what the Pharisees did... indeed, what my Lord prophesied... and Paul was a former Pharisee. John 9:34

    My Lord, however, not only went and found a man expelled by the Pharisees and called him to himself (John 9:35)... but HE... ate with the tax collectors and sinners. Those who, today, the WTBTS would DF in a hot second. AND... he gave the command to STOP judging. Matthew 7:1

    Dear Paul, on the other hand, erroneously tried to INSTITUTE judging (1 Corinthians 5:12, 13). But after he was opposed by the majority of the Corinthian congregation... AND THE APOSTLES... he changed his "tune." So that about a year after trying to get the Corinthians to judge "those on the inside" he wrote to the Roman congregation, asking "Who are YOU to judge...?" and stating "Therefore, let us NOT be judging one another ANY LONGER..." (BTW, great "save", Paul!) Romans 14:4, 13

    Dear one, there is no "removing" of ANYONE from the Body of Christ... yet. How do we know? Well, one, because the weeds DO "grow" with the wheat. In the same "field," too. But second, and most important, because even Judas wasn't removed or cast off. Judas... left. On his own. Because his conscience couldn't bear what he had done. HE... judged himself. Which is ALSO what Christ prophesied. True, my Lord did dismiss him... from the evening meal (and NOT the Body)... by saying to him to get done whatever he needed to do more quickly, but he never blatantly outed Judas to the others, other than to say that the one who would betray him would be the one who received the polluted morsel... and Judas received that morsel. But he never told his disciples to turn away from Judas... nor did he. Judas is the one who turned HIS gaze from the Copper Serpent... turned HIS face... from the Truth. But, he, too, will be resurrected... because there is going to be a resurrection of the righteous... AND the unrighteous. Like Adam and Eve, Judas must still "face" the throne... and be judged.

    Thus, any "removing" in THIS world is "unlawful" (i.e., lacking [the law of] love. AND... it cannot be "lawfully" done by anyone other than Christ himself, the only one WITHOUT sin... and thus, ABLE to judge. And because it is, after all, HIS Body and thus HIS congregation.

    Anyone who does this... who judges another... will ultimately find that THEY are now subject to the very Law by which they judged... the Law Covenant... and so ALL of their sins... every single one of them... even those that may have been previously "covered" by the blood of Christ... are reinstated and without "covering."

    Because that's how it works: judge... and you WILL be judged. FORGIVE... and you WILL be forgiven. Show mercy... and you WILL be SHOWN mercy.

    No, you really should find fault with such a practice. Lives (of those who "do not know what they['re] do[ing])... may depend on it.

    I bid you peace.

    A slave of Christ,

    SA, who says to those who look to Paul... you really CAN'T slave for two masters. You cannot. You WILL love the one... and HATE the other. So, you really MUST choose: either Paul's "laws" (which sometimes go against the Law of the NEW Covenant)... or Christ's laws, which NEVER do. And no, they are NOT one and the same. To the contrary, they are sometimes the exact opposite.

    Look at Paul, dear ones... and won't... CAN'T... see Christ. Truly. That is, unless you're spiritually "cock-eyed"... which is another concern and thread altogether...

  • steve2
    steve2

    Scripture has always been used to justify everything, from slavery to genocide. The Old Testament reeks of ill-tempered wiping out of "peoples", right down to babies, old men and women. As for the oppression-obsessed letters of Paul - don't get me started! A mean-spirited "rule" for everything, with a nice after thuoght or two for slaves too.

    Quoting Scripture to justify cruel behaviour is a favored practice of people too afraid and/or accustomed to come to their own conclusions about how to treat their fellow man and woman.

  • Hadit
    Hadit

    So many fantastic points everyone. I never thought of Paul in that way - very interesting! The WT teachings are so far away from love. People are being shunned at times in their lives when they should be getting the most support, love and encouragement. Instead they get hatred and left without a network of support.

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