Being Comfortable with the Presence of Mystery

by man in black 9 Replies latest jw experiences

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  man in black

  I was reading an article about this subject, and the author was explaining how so many new discoveries in space right now are hard to explain.

  These comments were also made:

  Livio (the author) also picks up on an intriguing theme left dangling in my lovely Easter conversation with Vatican astronomers Guy Consolmagno and George Coyne — the enduring question of whether mathematical truths, laws of nature, are discovered or invented. He unapologetically offers his conclusion that there is no either/or answer possible here — that mathematics is both invented and discovered. That is to say, as he tells it, scientists habitually "invent" formulations and theories with no practical application, which generations or centuries later are found to describe fundamental aspects of reality. Even mathematical ideas that are at first invented yield real discoveries that are relevant, true, and wholly unexpected.

  And I kept thinking, as I spoke with Mario Livio, of Einstein's references to the reverence for beauty and open sense of wonder that Einstein saw as a common root experience of true science, true religion, and true art. His use of the word "God," Mario Livio tells me, is similar to Einstein's grasp for the word "God" as a synonym for the workings of the cosmos. I am struck once again with the capacity of modern scientists to be more comfortable with the presence of mystery, and bolder in articulating its reality than many who are traditionally religious.

  They got me thinking about how I as a JW would always think of, or explain the WT answer for every question, or emotion that happened.

  Someone died ? Well the WT and the Bible explain it this way 1-2-3,,,, we're done. Lets go out in service now.

  Everything was conveniently compartmentalized, I thought questioning something from a basic human viewpoint was considered a sign of spiritual weakness.

  As a JW did you place an extra effort into always having a "correct" answer for everyone and everything ?

  Do you currently think that there are no mysteries when it comes to God and the Bible ?

  And, are you able to accept the thought that there might be Mysteries regarding spirituality, and are you comfortable with that if you answered yes ?
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  Robdar

  I've always enjoyed the mystery. Once the facts are known about a particular subject, it often becomes mundane to me.
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  leavingwt

  They got me thinking about how I as a JW would always think of, or explain the WT answer for every question, or emotion that happened.

  A common feature of boths cults and Fundamentalist groups is lots of certainty. Moreover, they never stop talking about how certain they are.
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  JWoods

  Mario Livio is one of my very favorite science writers.

  I have his book The Golden Ratio - the story of phi, from 2002.

  Yes, I agree with the premise - all great science comes from the desire to solve mystery. And to solve it logically in a provable manner - not just to make up some theological mish-mash to explain away things we do not understand.
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  Terry

  Livio (the author) also picks up on an intriguing theme left dangling in my lovely Easter conversation with Vatican astronomers Guy Consolmagno and George Coyne — the enduring question of whether mathematical truths, laws of nature, are discovered or invented. He unapologetically offers his conclusion that there is no either/or answer possible here — that mathematics is both invented and discovered. That is to say, as he tells it, scientists habitually "invent" formulations and theories with no practical application, which generations or centuries later are found to describe fundamental aspects of reality.

  This is the ancient dichotomy of PLATO (the concepts are more real than reality) vs ARISTOTLE (reality exists and it is all.)

  The fellow wants to hybridize the struggle by conceptually destroying the integrity of language and detaching referents from concepts.

  It is also an embrace of the argument from ignorance. As though what we DON'T KNOW is proof of something we DO know.

  Man's only means of useful knowledge is his rational mind in which no contradictions are allowed to exist between reality (the world as it really is) and our thoughts about the world.

  Once we confuse our imagination with reality and lose track of the fact we are doing so----we lose our way.

  Inventions come from rationally constructing what MIGHT WELL EXIST (using the imagination as a workshop) and synthesizing the new from parts of the old.

  False attribution of the "source" of inventiveness and genius is an attempt to disable the rational mind and leave humans open to irrational manipulation. (As religion does by faith.)
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  StAnn

  I actually like the idea of mystery. I'm not afraid of death but I'm dissatisfied that I won't live long enough to learn and explore as much as I would like.

  The universe is full of mystery. I think the desire to be able to explain everything and understand everything is prevalent in groups like the JWs because they are so uneducated that they aren't smart enough to realize just how much there is to know. Who could possibly know about everything, especially everything in the universe when you can't even see it?

  Do I think there are mysteries when it comes to God? Yes. That's one of the things I like about the Church is that, when asked something, they're not afraid to say, "We don't know." I take my relationship with God a little like I take my relationship with my husband: I didn't know everything about him when I met him and I really get to know him over time, the longer we're together. The longer I'm a Christian, the more intimate I feel in my relationship with God. I'm not willing to "stay single" all my life spiritually because I don't know each and everything about God. I married my husband on faith. I don't even know each and everything about myself.

  StAnn
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  mindmelda

  I'll never know everything, so I figure I'd better get comfortable with mystery. LOL

  In life, I think you have to balance the drive to know and learn with at some point realizing that access to knowledge is limited by many things, situations and circumstances, and accept that.
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  designs

  Into the Mystic

  Van Morrison
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  Terry

  Let's be clear. Mystery is Ignorance.

  What is "mysterious" is what we "don't know."

  I don't embrace ignorance.

  It is like smelling fresh baked bread. It should make you hungry for a good meal. It is useless otherwise; a mere titillation.

  Ignorance is not a source of anything worthwhile to be embraced.
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  not a captive

  I don't see that Jesus attempted to answer all the unknowns. All the doctrines that have spilled out of councils and conferences since he died are rubbish. He gave his life and he taught us about his father and how to love each other.

  What I may learn is not supposed to end the search as far as my friends' search is concerned. We are invited to discover who the Father and who the Son are. No one can tell all that we to know.

  So. Not totally comfortable with mystery.Jesus said "Ask and you shall receive."

  Ask and you shall receive. I hope to learn a little while I'm here on the earth. But what I don't know, I trust will not hurt me.