FDS topic- Bible Support

by AwSnap 7 Replies latest jw friends

  • AwSnap
    AwSnap

    Im searching and searching, but not finding what I need. What scriptures do the jw's use to show that the Governing Body is put in the position to mediate between the rank and file and God Almighty? And what refutable points are there? All scriptures I've read recently show that Jesus was talking to EVERYONE who practiced faith in him. Do the jw's believe that all those people were part of the 144,000? How many people were even alive back then? I just can't understand how they can say there's only 144,000, especially when those scriptures that say 144,000 are followed by things like "they will be only virgins"... Sorry for the ramble. Hopefully, I can get some answers here. Thanks.

    Going to Heaven

    (1 Corinthians15:35-54) Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies; 37 and as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but a bare grain, it may be, of wheat or any one of the rest; 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and to each of the seeds its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, and there is another flesh of cattle, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40 And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort. 41 The glory of the sun is one sort, and the glory of the moon is another, and the glory of the stars is another; in fact, star differs from star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised up in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised up in power. 44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 Nevertheless, the first is, not that which is spiritual, but that which is physical, afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is out of the earth and made of dust; the second man is out of heaven. 48 As the one made of dust [is], so those made of dust [are] also; and as the heavenly one [is], so those who are heavenly [are] also. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one. 50 However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when [this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and] this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written: “Death is swallowed up forever.”

  • Essan
    Essan

    Yes, the JW's believe that all of the 1st century Christians were of the 144,000.

    Yes, in light of evidence for the the numbers of 1st C Christians, it's ridiculous to believe that 144,000 is literal.

    They don't teach that the Governing Body mediate. They use scriptures which refer to the all 'anointed Christians' - the "Faithful slave" - and then with some sleight of hand totally unsupported by Scripture they pretend that the Governing Body somehow 'represents' this 'Slave Class' of all anointed Christians. Which is total hogwash, both Scripturally and practically.

  • AwSnap
    AwSnap

    Thank you Essan. Can I get all the specific scriptures?

  • AwSnap
    AwSnap

    ....Or at least a thread discussing this in depth?

  • Essan
    Essan

    Hi Awswap.

    Which Scriptures? They have no scriptural basis for claiming the 144,00 is literal, they just insist it is. My opinion is that the JW position on all the above is entirely unscriptural and that their statements regarding the GB are just flim-flam. They claim that Jesus is the mediator for anointed Christians only and that the vast majority of JWs really only have any hope because they associate with these anointed Christians and obey what they claim (without scriptural justification) is the "representative" of the anointed, the 'Governing Body'.

    It's all very silly and unscriptural.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Hi, AwSnap!!!

    This topic has been discussed at length on many threads on this board; here's the first one I ran across when I typed into Search: "Governing Body takes the place of Jesus..."

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/136326/1/The-governing-body-is-The-Christ

    This thread has a comment by Blondie, which includes several quotes from Watchtower literature. I didn't look very far; I suspect that if you can find threads on the subject started by Blondie, Lady Lee, Scully, perhaps Think About It, AK_Jeff, and so on, you might fare well...

    As to quoting scriptures, the Gov.Bod cannot directly quote ANY scripture that says the Gov.Bod or "faithful and discreet slave" is in a position to mediate between God and man... They TWIST a lot of scriptures into paper pretzels trying to do that, but there isn't a scripture in the bible that actually SAYS that...

    Better double-check with Leolaia and others, but I'm pretty sure that the bible never states that...

    Essan made several excellent points about that [the bible never puts the 'faithful & discreet slave' into Christ's place...]; perhaps you could PM him for OPPOSING scriptures???

    Zid

  • ziddina
  • AwSnap
    AwSnap

    Thanks. I typed in "Jesus Not Mediator" , "Governing Body is Mediator", ect.... nothing came up with what I actually was looking for. Thanks, Zid. I will check it out!

    Essan, it certainly does not make sense. I figured the jw's HAVE to have more than just the scriptures stating the 144,000 is literal. I have some jw books shoved into a box somewhere here...maybe I'll dig through the rubbish.

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