Brazen Conduct or Loose Conduct? Original Greek question....

by LostGeneration 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  LostGeneration

  According to the details posted by Ynot the Brazen conduct wording is explained this way:

  You will note in chapter 5, paragraph 9, of the Shepherding textbook that a change in terminology is being introduced. A new term, "brazen conduct," will be used in addition to " loose conduct," or in some cases instead of "loose conduct." This new term has been cho!ll';n by the
  Governing Body because it more accurately conveys the thOUght of the original Greek word that is translated "loose conduct" in the New World Translation.

  I assume they are referring to this scripture at Gal 5:19-21

  19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, 20 idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, 21 envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. As to these things I am forewarning YOU , the same way as I did forewarn YOU , that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom.

  So my question to the brains on the board is this- Is the GB once again twisting scripture to meet their own agenda? Or is there any backup for their "brazen conduct" wording listed in the letter? I really have no idea of the original greek word they are referring to here so thus the question
• 

  Cook My Socks UK

  No brains I'm afraid, but I guess this is the ref:

  *** w06 7/15 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***
  Loose conduct (Greek, a?sel′gei?a) denotes “licentiousness; wantonness; shameless conduct; lewdness of conduct.” The New Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon defines the Greek term as “unbridled lust, . . . outrageousness, shamelessness, insolence.” According to another lexicon, loose conduct is a form of behavior that “violates all bounds of what is socially acceptable.”
  As the foregoing definitions show, “loose conduct” involves two elements: (1) The conduct itself is a serious violation of God’s laws, and (2) the attitude of the wrongdoer is disrespectful, insolent.
  Therefore, “loose conduct” does not refer to bad conduct of a minor nature. It pertains to acts that are serious violations of God’s laws and that reflect a brazen or boldly contemptuous attitude—a spirit that betrays disrespect or even contempt for authority, laws, and standards. Paul links loose conduct with illicit intercourse. (Romans 13:13, 14) Since Galatians 5:19-21 lists loose conduct among a number of sinful practices that would disqualify one from inheriting God’s Kingdom, loose conduct is grounds for reproof and possible disfellowshipping from the Christian congregation.

  Brazen - boldness without shame would link to many of the words denoted by the phrase "loose conduct".
• 

  Leolaia

  Therefore, “loose conduct” does not refer to bad conduct of a minor nature. It pertains to acts that are serious violations of God’s laws and that reflect a brazen or boldly contemptuous attitude—a spirit that betrays disrespect or even contempt for authority, laws, and standards.

  "Brazen conduct" is fine in terms of translation but this explication of the meaning is seriously off-base. It reduces aselgeia to simply bad conduct of a serious nature that disrespects "authority, laws, and standards," which essentially could apply to any "bad conduct of a serious nature" (vis-a-vis the moral rules enforced by the Society), whereas shamelessness is central to the idea of aselgeia. Thus "loose conduct" has been used as a catch-all for transgressive behavior regardless of whether it was done privately, or by someone embarrassed by its disclosure to others. Now, to compound this, a person shamed by such disclosure is now going to be told that he or she has acted "brazenly".
• 

  Farkel

  leolaia,

  :Now, to compound this, a person shamed by such disclosure is now going to be told that he or she has acted "brazenly".

  I'm quite fond of the term "brazen hussy!" It has a certain penache' to it, I think. There are probably a lot of "hussies" (whatever THAT means), but one can't help but have a fondness for the "brazen" ones!

  Farkel
• 

  Leolaia

  Everyone's a little bit brazen.....
• 

  JWoods

  One thing that fits the pattern here is yet another new "theocratic term" to be used in Jehovah-speak.

  Pretty soon, it will be a sign of spiritual weakness to slip and say "loose conduct".

  Those who are strong in the truth say "brazen".
• 

  Darth plaugeis

  Loose conduct seemed to always go the Sexual way....

  Brazen Conduct can now belong to thoughts or Ideas or actions QUESTIONABLE TO THE SOCIETY!

  Being told why something is the way it is and you don't listen can fall under Brazen Conduct.

  Being told to stop doing a questionable thing such as....... posting on an Apostate Site Is BRAZEN CONDUCT
• 

  undercover

  Brazen Conduct can now belong to thoughts or Ideas or actions QUESTIONABLE TO THE SOCIETY!

  That was my first thought when I first saw another thread about the inclusion of this phrase in the new elder's book.

  You "touched" your girlfriend? Loose conduct.

  You had too much to drink and embarrassed yourself at the wedding reception? Loose conduct.

  You openly question why, when, what and where regarding doctrinal changes or the history of the Society? Brazen conduct.

  Loose is, well, just loose. You lost control for a bit but with some work can tighten things back up.

  Brazen is more purposeful. In time a stigma will be attached to the WT use of the word "brazen". Anyone labeled as "brazen" or reproved for "brazen conduct" will be feared more than someone who fornicated or smoked, but only slightly less than a full on "apostate".
• 

  WTWizard

  Another way to catch people. Now they can say that "loose conduct" is almost committing a sin, while "brazen conduct" is disregard for authority including not heeding counsel on minor issues. And it's the hounders that decide how close to "committing a sin" one needs to come to amount to "loose conduct"--driving around and looking at the Christmas lights, or even looking at the Christmas tree while out in field circus, could now be "loose conduct" because it is "almost" celebrating Christmas. Watching the Quick Draw lottery could be "almost playing the lottery" and labelled "loose conduct". Listening to real music could be "almost" doing whatever [bad act] is described in the song, and thus "loose conduct".

  All the while, they now use "brazen conduct" to describe what "loose conduct" was supposed to mean. Additionally, any failure to heed counsel from any source could be "brazen conduct". You get one hounder that tells you to get a brown bag, another tells you to get a black one. Whichever you pick, the other could claim you failed to heed counsel and get you for "brazen conduct". Or, they could have a pio-sneer tell you that a certain CD has objectionable content (the pio-sneer merely doesn't like the music or the band), and then a hounder could see the same CD a week later and get you for failure to heed the counsel to throw it away. "Brazen conduct" would be the charge.

  Of course, you will not find this in the official washtowel littera-trash. However, the hounders will interpret it this way and enforce it accordingly.