I'm a 5th generation JW - and I have to admit a lot of it doesn't make sense to me.
Question: If when a person dies, they go to heaven, what is the point?
Question: If Jesus is a perfect competent ruler, why would he need "assistants"?
Discuss.
:-)
For Those of You who Believe in Heaven...
by dssynergy 9 Replies latest jw experiences
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leavingwt
doesn't make sense to me
When something doesn't make sense, throw in a healthy measure of FAITH to boost your confidence.
Martin Luther taught that faith and reason were antithetical, in the sense that questions of faith could not be illuminated by reason. He wrote, "All the articles of our Christian faith, which God has revealed to us in His Word, are in presence of reason sheerly impossible, absurd, and false." [1] and "[That] Reason in no way contributes to faith. [...] For reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things." [2] However, though seemingly contradictorily, he also wrote in the latter work that human reason "strives not against faith, when enlightened, but rather furthers and advances it" [3] , bringing claims he was a fideist into dispute.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_and_rationality#Fideism
IOW, even though God gave you a brain, he would prefer that you just trust him. None of it is supposed to many any sense, according to Martin Luther. (His credentials are arguably much superior to my own.)
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Chalam
Question: If when a person dies, they go to heaven, what is the point?
2 Corinthians 5:6-8 (New International Version)
6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 We live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
Philippians 1:21 (New International Version)
21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
Question: If Jesus is a perfect competent ruler, why would he need "assistants"?
We just are looking forward to being there with the family
John 1:11-13 (New International Version)
11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
Galatians 3:26 (New International Version)
Sons of God
26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus Blessings, Stephen -
cameo-d
Those who "go to heaven"....you ask "Why? what's the point?" That is a very good question.
The reason is to be among those who have similar temperament and like-mindedness. Not hive mind, but a mind of like values and morals. Hive mind is forced and blind obedience. Like mind is different and allows for individuality.
Didn't you notice in school how the different classes in elementary were made up of all the really smart kids in one class, and the not so smart kids in other classes? Kids were segregated according to their potential, their track record and their behavior. There is also a similar order in nature. Those who are ready to leave will be among those you call "the heavenlies".
Others will stay in this realm for the new beginning here, the "paradise" if you will. Those who are really evil and incorrigible will be quarrantined away from this planet so that the humans who want to stay here will be able to have a more peaceful existence. Those who continue on the earth will also be segregated into their like groups. (Water seeks its own level). There will be an inner circle or "inner court" as it is referred to in Revelation as the "new Jerusalem". Many here will still have lessons to learn before they are admitted into the higher earthly realms.
In this new order, the higher earthly realms will all be dependent upon spiritual advancements and works, appreciation and understanding of the creation; there will be no more lies, no more politics, no more abusive religions, no agenda to divide people. When those outside the circle become more civilized and reasoning they will gradually attain admittance into higher groups when they prove themselves. No one will be held back by the things that bind us today. There will be teachers from the inner courts that go out among them in order to raise their consciousness.
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Chalam
Question: If when a person dies, they go to heaven, what is the point?
Much better than the other option
Revelation 22:14-15 (New International Version)
14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Revelation 20:14-15 (New International Version)
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Matthew 13:40-42 (New International Version)
40 "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Blessings,
Stephen
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TheListener
I would just add that Witnesses believe that when people die they go to heaven - they just limit the number.
Witnesses also believe that the New Testament was written for the 144,000 which is why it so clearly shows a heavenly hope for its readers.
They also believe that the great crowd can learn from the NT and they should follow it's advice but the promises therein are not for them - that is also why they can state Christ is not the great crowd's mediator - the great crowd aren't in the covenant. The great crowd are participant bystanders (oxymoron).
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dssynergy
I get that the idea is to be reunited with Christ and Family. Ok, Yippee!! We all made it - now what? I mean really, we die so we can just hang out? I think the idea of sleeping makes much more sense.
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cameo-d
TheListener: " follow it's advice but the promises therein are not for them - that is also why they can state Christ is not the great crowd's mediator - the great crowd aren't in the covenant. "
I don't know exactly what "promises" you are referring to....
But the reason Christ is not the mediator for the JWs is because the JWs are relying on man's rule and are allowing the FDS and GB to be their mediators. Until they "wash their robes" of man's rule/WT rule, they will not be free to be among the others who have the mediation of Christ.
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PSacramento
Our spirit goes to heaven, back to the source from which it came and awaiting the ressurection of the body that it "belongs" to.
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Chalam
dssynergy I think the idea of sleeping makes much more sense.
Of course, that is what the WT preach Soul sleep
Blessings,
Stephen